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Lucilia? - Lucilia caesar male
Morten A Mjelde	#1 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:43
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	Middle part of South Norway 25.06.2017 Lush vegetation 8 - 9 mm. Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [192.07Kb] Edited by Morten A Mjelde on 04-07-2017 20:44


Morten A Mjelde	#2 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:44
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	2 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [196.92Kb]


Morten A Mjelde	#3 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:44
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	3 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [186.82Kb]


Morten A Mjelde	#4 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:45
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	4 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [191.2Kb]


Morten A Mjelde	#5 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:45
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	5 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [179.62Kb]


Morten A Mjelde	#6 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:46
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	6 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [93.98Kb]


Morten A Mjelde	#7 Posted on 02-07-2017 21:47
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	7 Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [132.59Kb]


johnes81	#8 Posted on 03-07-2017 09:57
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	Lucilia. black/brown basicosta, two pairs of postsutural acrostichal bristles, white/cream squamae leads us to one of three options: L. ampullacea, L. caesar and L. illustris. the presence of a coxopleural streak will eliminate ampullacea and illustris. I cannot see a coxopleural streak, the mid leg is blocking the view. For genitalia, the terminalia need to be unfolded for a clear view. the eyes are very close together which reminds me of caesar. you need to check for a coxopleural streak. http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20p?img=I_MWS99498&res=640


Morten A Mjelde	#9 Posted on 03-07-2017 20:39
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	Thanks a lot! To me it seems as if the coxopleural streak is missing. If that is correct remains L. ampullacea og L. illustris. L. ampullacea is not a Norwegian species, but we can not rule it out for that reason... Is it difficult to distinguish between these two species? Rosevinge Morten A Mjelde attached the following image: [142.69Kb]


johnes81	#10 Posted on 03-07-2017 22:03
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	a coxopleural streak is present. vide streak-present.jpg attachment. The streak is of an unusually brown color, unless the color is a result of lighting. Lucilia caesar male. You make very nice photos. I have seen many nice photos from you. edit: L. ampullacea and L. illustris can be separated via genitalia. If you have never examined genitalia before, then it may not be easy. If you have such a situation, then it may be easy for you to send a specimen to someone for examination. johnes81 attached the following image: [111.81Kb] Edited by johnes81 on 03-07-2017 22:21


Morten A Mjelde	#11 Posted on 04-07-2017 20:43
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	Thank you very much! Rosvinge


Morten A Mjelde	#12 Posted on 07-07-2017 20:57
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	I have received a comment from an expert in Norway that in both L. caesar and L. illustris a coxopleural streak is present. Only L. ampullacea can be seperated by this... Regards Rosevinge


johnes81	#13 Posted on 07-07-2017 21:47
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	yes, that's correct. I get my wires crossed sometimes. sorry. I work 12-16hour days, so I forget details sometimes. the best method for separating Lucilia species is the table from Stevens and Wall. Which separates caesar and illustris by hypopygium. However, illustris has black legs while caesar has brown/black legs like sericata. My opinion is that the legs are brown/black. If you disagree, then flip out the hypopygium for a highly conspicuous view of caesar or a conspicuous view of illustris. https://projects.exeter.ac.uk/meeg/sites/default/files/publications/Stevens%20%26%20Wall%20JNatHist%20%2796.pdf also, caesar is more common than illustris. despite opinions, caesar is not restricted to "woods". One can find caesar in a park with bushes. trees and grass. Lucilia are well documented by Forensic scientists and the data is accurate. Otheriwse, some bad people would not be in prison. caesar is more stout. I always think of it as being short and stout with eyes closer together than illustris. L. caesar prefers shade but can sometimes be seen resting in the sunshine. Edited by johnes81 on 07-07-2017 21:54


Morten A Mjelde	#14 Posted on 08-07-2017 13:14
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	We all make mistakes..... Width of the forehead/width of the head alså indicates L. caesar. Thank you for your answer! Rosevinge


johnes81	#15 Posted on 08-07-2017 16:41
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	I apologize for my sloppiness. I love Lucilia. I spend time just watching/observing them in the wild. I read alot of forensic science literature. I am trying to collect all of the species in Germany but my time is well consumed on a daily basis. I am by no means an expert but I am usually able to id Lucilia by photo with accuracy. Not always. I also study spiders but I never id spiders without genitalia. I prefer genitalia for id. I am comfortable with Lucilia but I prefer genitalia for accuracy. I feel strongly that this species is caesar. I try to help poeple if I feel that I can do so. If you prefer experts only, then I will make a note to avoid your posts. Again, I am not an expert. I am just a Lucilia enthusiast. Have a pleasant day


Morten A Mjelde	#16 Posted on 08-07-2017 19:58
Member Location: Posts: 6229 Joined: 29.11.15	I would appreciate your help in the future! Rosevinge

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