Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Policheta unicolor (Fallen, 1820) [OK]
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| Marcello |
Posted on 17-11-2013 19:18
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Found today, without the camera was just a little black fly, then I reported it on the PC and seem to be a Tachinidae, small, dark metallic. Hairy eyes in the second half, below. 17.11.2013 - Northeast Italy  Tachinidae di Marcello Consolo, su Flickr Thanks for the help! Ciao, Marcello Edited by Marcello on 27-11-2013 17:22 http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 17-11-2013 21:06
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 Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Very interesting ... not sure what it is without a specimen though  Did you have any more photos from different angles?
Edited by ChrisR on 17-11-2013 21:06 Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 17-11-2013 21:40
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Yeah, I thought it was a Muscidae otherwise I would taken the subject! I have another shot but it's similar:  Thank you! Ciao, Marcello http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 19-11-2013 18:28
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Very interesting case. First impression was Erynnia or Erynniopsis, but those have a clear petiole in the wing So now I am thinking Elodia morio, a species I have very little experience with Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 19-11-2013 18:40
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Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Elodia morio is a good call but it doesn't quite match my specimen here. Mine (a male reared from the host) lacks any trace of dusting on the thorax and the abdomen is broader with thinner/finer median discal & marginal bristles. I will have a look at the NHM tomorrow and see what we have there
Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 19-11-2013 22:32
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Thanks Chris and Theo, I'm sorry to not have others photos, but the Tachinid was moving too fast around the flower and I had just the time for a few of shots before it has flown away. The only way to help you is to zoom some parts Thanks! Ciao, Marcello http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 20-11-2013 09:44
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Hi Marcello The pictures are actually pretty decent for such a small fly. We need to see tiny details, which does not make our life more easy. Theo |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 20-11-2013 09:49
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Maybe we are barking up the wrong tree. If you enter in tachinidae.eu * facial ridge with setulae over 1/2 * occiput with only black haira * apical scutellar setae weak, parallel or divergent you end up with either Phytomyptera or Neoplectops. ?? Theo |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 20-11-2013 09:52
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
And if you loosen the black hairs on occiput to 'with some white hairs', you can add Elodia. Theo |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 20-11-2013 20:27
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Thank you Theo for the great help! About Phytomyptera genus in the North Italy we have: Phytomyptera nigrina Phytomyptera bohemica Phytomyptera cingulate Phytomyptera stackelbergi Phytomyptera vaccinii but the genus Phytomyptera have the bare eyes, the subject in the photo have hairs in the lower part. About Neoplectops genus it's present only in the South Italy with Neoplectops pomonellae but it have the bare eyes too. Elodia genus, here we have Elodia ambulatoria and Elodia morio The subject in the photo have only black air on the occiput (at least for what I can see), but it have a more long bristle (spine) at the mid tibia (Elodia genus). I could make a chaetotaxy of the subject if it can help you (just because I have the HQ res of the photo) thank you again for your help! Ref. "I Tachinidi della fauna Italiana. Pierfilippo Cerretti" Ciao, Marcello Edited by Marcello on 20-11-2013 23:23 http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 20-11-2013 23:20
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Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Just a quick shot of Elodia morio, for reference ... all of the NHM specimens lack dusting on the enterior portion of the thorax.
ChrisR attached the following image:  [112.72Kb] Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 20-11-2013 23:43
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Hi Chris, thank you for posting this photo! You're right there is a lack of dusting on the anterior part of the thorax. Can you confirm please that Elodia morio have the bare eyes? Thanks! Ciao, Marcello PS: I hope next week (weather permitting) to back in the place where I saw the Tachinid, if I found it again I'll catch it. Edited by Marcello on 20-11-2013 23:48 http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 21-11-2013 20:09
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
OK, so no Elodia. It is not Phytomyptera, I would be very surprised. So we are lost. Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 21-11-2013 20:32
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Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
I'll throw another into the hat - how about Leiophora innoxia?
Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London. |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 21-11-2013 21:25
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Leiophora innoxia I think seem a good one. It's present in North Italy, eye with a few of hairs in the lower part (just like the subject), ocellar setae well developed and proclinate. 3 orbital reclinate upper setae, or 2 of the same length. 0-2 orbital proclinate setae in the male, 2 in the female. White hairs in a portion of the posteroventral head (?). Some or not black hairs behind the postocular line. By "I tachinidi della fauna Italiana. Pierfilippo Cerretti" What do you think? Thanks for the help! Marcello http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 24-11-2013 09:15
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I have considered Leiophora at least three times, but it simply fails on the black hairs on the occiput. Unless we have been very misled by the picture..... Theo |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 24-11-2013 09:27
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Hi Theo, later, when I back from work, I'll try to zoom only that part by another shot and then I post it here. Thanks you! Ciao, Marcello http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Marcello |
Posted on 24-11-2013 22:08
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Member Location: Padua - Northeast Italy Posts: 577 Joined: 01.07.12 |
Edited by Marcello on 24-11-2013 22:09 http://www.flickr...loconsolo/ |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 25-11-2013 09:38
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18532 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I am starting to consider that this might be an aberrant Erynniopsis antennata with open topcel. In some Erynniopsis, the petiole is much shorter than in other. I have seen more weird things... It is definitely NOT Leiphora, I checked my collection. Theo |
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| neprisikiski |
Posted on 25-11-2013 15:07
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Member Location: Lithuania Posts: 876 Joined: 23.02.09 |
Policheta unicolor, I think.
Erikas |
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but don't see the image in the post.