Gallery Links
Users Online
· Guests Online: 8

· Members Online: 0

· Total Members: 4,118
· Newest Member: SabineH
Forum Threads
Theme Switcher
Switch to:
Last Seen Users
· pjoris< 5 mins
· Maks S00:25:02
· Sundew00:39:18
· Newvilobicel01:11:47
· Carnifex01:20:06
· Zeegers01:51:00
· Quaedfliegh01:53:38
· nomad01:58:08
· Martino77702:13:48
· Nosferatumyia03:13:05
Latest Photo Additions
View Thread
Diptera.info :: Family forums :: Asilidae Forum
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
Choerades marginata?
Nick Upton
#1 Print Post
Posted on 01-01-2018 12:36
Member

Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 779
Joined: 12.03.10

Black robber fly with golden hairs on legs and abdomen, c 8mm in ancient woodland in SW UK. New to me and a nationally scarce species not yet recorded in Wiltshire if I'm correct, though I may not be. NB UK species records have it as C. marginatus rather than C. marginata.
Nick Upton attached the following image:


[210.6Kb]
Nick Upton - naturalist and photographer
 
Nick Upton
#2 Print Post
Posted on 01-01-2018 12:37
Member

Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 779
Joined: 12.03.10

Pair mating on same day 26.6.17
Nick Upton attached the following image:


[156.15Kb]
Nick Upton - naturalist and photographer
 
Quaedfliegh
#3 Print Post
Posted on 01-01-2018 21:11
User Avatar

Member

Location: Tilburg Netherlands
Posts: 1806
Joined: 18.05.10

Choerades marginata or femorata. In NL we name it also C. marginatus but the feminine version seems to be correct. http://www.latin-dictionary.net/definition/9462/choeras-choeradis
C. femorata is very similar but has slightly longer antennae than marginata and the shiny facial hair is usually white(more yellowish in marginata). In the near future Die Raubliegen Deutschlands will be published and I think we will find a solution there.
Greetings,

Reinoud
 
Nick Upton
#4 Print Post
Posted on 02-01-2018 16:11
Member

Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 779
Joined: 12.03.10

Many thanks Reinoud. I can't find records of C. femorata in the UK and think it may only be on mainland Europe, so this is likely C. marginata if our recording is accurate. I found this good key to German Asilids http://www.robberflies.info/keyger/htmle/keychoerades.html which gives the key antennal differences, though my photos don't show the antennae clearly enough.
Nick Upton - naturalist and photographer
 
Quaedfliegh
#5 Print Post
Posted on 02-01-2018 22:27
User Avatar

Member

Location: Tilburg Netherlands
Posts: 1806
Joined: 18.05.10

C. femorata has long been regarded as synonym to marginata, that is probably the reason why it was never taken into account (also in the NL). In the NL probably all/most marginata specimens are actually femorata. Your specimens look more like femorata too because of the white facial hair. Just an observation; in France I collected quite a few specimens with yellow facial hair and all in a fir forest. In NL you will hardly ever find "marginata" in coniferous forests. So, I suspect that marginata is a species of coniferous forests and femorata of deciduous forests.
Greetings,

Reinoud
 
andrewsi
#6 Print Post
Posted on 03-01-2018 09:57
Member

Location: Pocklington UK
Posts: 164
Joined: 15.08.09

The UK list assumes the derivation is from the patronymic -ades in Greek nouns, which is masculine, so it should be femoratus. According to the UK checklist, Choerades was treated as feminine only because species within it were originally considered part of the feminine Laphria genus. The derivation is obscure, but taking it as Choer-ades might give the derivation 'son of a pig'. An alternative would be that it comes from the feminine plural noun choerades meaning 'scrofulous swellings in the neck', which would mean marginata could be right. I suppose it comes down to whether the name was inspired by pigs or scrofulous sores... Wink
Edited by andrewsi on 03-01-2018 09:58
 
Nick Upton
#7 Print Post
Posted on 03-01-2018 14:48
Member

Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 779
Joined: 12.03.10

Many thanks to you both for the extra info on C. marginta/us/femorata. Sounds like some taxonomic revision is needed for this Genus/Species to bring some clarity and hopefully the German work will do that. The current taxonomy seems more like a pig's ear than a sore to me at the moment! These links suggest that the status of C. marginatus / C. femorata is currently undecided in the uk.
http://www.dipteristsforum.org.uk/t3261-Request.html
http://www.dipteristsforum.org.uk/t1027-Choerades-marginatus%3F.html
The location was a deciduous woodland ride, and the facial hairs do look white not yellow, so C. femorata does seem the most likely true ID and that name needs to be added to the UK list!
Edited by Nick Upton on 07-01-2018 19:00
Nick Upton - naturalist and photographer
 
Piluca_Alvarez
#8 Print Post
Posted on 05-01-2018 08:51
User Avatar

Member

Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 2402
Joined: 06.11.10

For the last Choerades paper, we asked people from the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature in order to solve this confusing situation and after consulting the original description of the genus Choerades , this was the answer:

Choerades is the vocative plural of choeras – and is feminine. It refers to a swelling of glands in the neck.
 
andrewsi
#9 Print Post
Posted on 05-01-2018 18:13
Member

Location: Pocklington UK
Posts: 164
Joined: 15.08.09

Piluca_Alvarez wrote:

Choerades is the vocative plural of choeras – and is feminine. It refers to a swelling of glands in the neck.


'Vocative' plural would surely be wrong, unless they have started talking to flies! Nominative plural...possibly.
 
Jump to Forum:
Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Choerades ID > cf. femorata Asilidae Forum 3 08-12-2018 17:52
Choerades from Italian Alps Asilidae Forum 3 07-12-2018 17:21
Choerades ID Asilidae Forum 5 05-12-2018 02:42
Sciomyzid from 21.09.18: Coremacera marginata? --> confirmed Diptera (adults) 3 25-09-2018 16:15
Choerades femoratus? Asilidae Forum 8 23-09-2018 16:31
Date and time
11 December 2018 21:54
Login
Username

Password



Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Temporary email?
Due to fact this site has functionality making use of your email address, any registration using a temporary email address will be rejected.

Paul
Donate
Please, help to make
Diptera.info
possible and enable
further improvements!
Latest Articles
Syrph the Net
Those who want to have access to the Syrph the Net database need to sign the
License Agreement -
Click to Download


Public files of Syrph the Net can be downloaded HERE

Last updated: 25.08.2011
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

10.12.18 00:08
Hello, I'm having a problem posting new threads, as the "No new Threads allowed..." is showing up on all of the forums. Is there some sort of thread limit I've exceeded?

03.12.18 11:19
SabineH: you have to be logged in to see "New Thread" in the right upper corner of each "forum" site. In the case of accidental logout you have to start over.

30.11.18 04:57
If anybody has any PDFs on Diptera of Southeast Asia I would love to have copies of them, mrgordonramel@yaho
o.com

29.11.18 20:13
Hello, tried to start a thread but upload did not work. And now I cannot find the button "New post" anymore. Please, help. Thanks

13.11.18 12:49
Hello Can any1 give me a contact email for Entomologie heute Thx

11.11.18 18:28
I don't have it, sorry

11.11.18 12:51
@Rafael_Carbonell What I would like is a pdf copy of Key to the Families of Diptera.

10.11.18 19:29
@Gordon, what exactly do you need? All the Oosterbroek literature is here: https://ccw.natura
lis.nl/

09.11.18 15:56
Does anybody have a PDF of Oosterbroek they could email me? I had one but it didn't make it to Cambodia.

25.10.18 12:03
Da mayfly man is in da house!

Render time: 3.72 seconds | 137,464,481 unique visits