Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Thereva cinifera
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| Sundew |
Posted on 13-07-2016 12:59
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 Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Hi, This night I had a male guest in my bathroom. My first impression was Asilidae, but then I thought: these tender feet are not made for catching prey - so Therevidae. The so often cited key led to Acrosathe, which I supposed to be much woolier. So is this a rather unhairy Acrosathe annulata male? I tried hard to find an av on femur 2, maybe in the smallest picture there is a shadow of it visible. A. baltica without av is not known from Berlin. Confirmation or correction of my ID is highly appreciated! Regards, Sundew Sundew attached the following image:  [199.9Kb] Edited by Sundew on 14-07-2016 17:52 |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 13-07-2016 13:00
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
More pics.
Sundew attached the following image:  [176.88Kb] |
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| ValerioW |
Posted on 13-07-2016 13:42
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 Member Location: Padova - Italy Posts: 982 Joined: 01.06.12 |
I'm agree with you. It's a little bald A. annulata male. |
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| ValerioW |
Posted on 13-07-2016 13:46
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Member Location: Padova - Italy Posts: 982 Joined: 01.06.12 |
About the av seta in femur II : I see that in the collage photo.
Edited by ValerioW on 13-07-2016 13:47 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2016 07:57
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18547 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Looks like the male of THereva cinifera to me. Did you consider that ? Theo |
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| ValerioW |
Posted on 14-07-2016 08:16
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Member Location: Padova - Italy Posts: 982 Joined: 01.06.12 |
Zeegers wrote: Looks like the male of THereva cinifera to me. Did you consider that ? Theo Nope, because of halteres. Here are pale, while should be dark to fit your guess |
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| ValerioW |
Posted on 14-07-2016 08:20
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Member Location: Padova - Italy Posts: 982 Joined: 01.06.12 |
...but if there's chance of variability in halters, and maybe is the case, I'm going to follow your tip |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2016 12:33
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18547 Joined: 21.07.04 |
This male not silvery, so it can't be Acrosathe, which is extremely silvery (you need sunglasses to look at it ). The halter is an issue indeed: it is totally dark in my male cinifera (n=1) and totally yellow in my male fulva (n=1). According to Stubbs, it is ' totally or partially dark' in cinifera. That would fit this one. Moreover, I don't expect fulva around Berlin, but I could be mistaken. My conclusion: likely male cinifera. Theo |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 14-07-2016 13:24
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
I should better stop to post Therevidae  Of course, I did not choose the key option "Male with abdominal hairs brown to black (not predominantly silver).", so I did not consider Thereva. Now, trying the key for male Therevas, I have to decide whether there is "Femur 1-2 with a few bristles below at the tip" - difficult to say, I have a lot of pics but see hairs only. Without bristles it would be T. oculata... Given that there are bristles hidden between the hairs and not protruding, we would reach T. cinifera/fulva. As you, dear Theo, identified my T. fulva couple from Berlin some years ago (http://www.dipter...d_id=31414), and as T. fulva is listed for Berlin/Brandenburg (http://www.orion-...liegen.pdf), we cannot exclude it, though I find the habitus very different (at least as different as a "normal" Acrosathe). I could not find a picture of T. cinifera and absolutely rely on your conclusion that a male cinifera can look this way, even if the halter knob is yellow. Thanks for all efforts! |
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| ValerioW |
Posted on 14-07-2016 13:41
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Member Location: Padova - Italy Posts: 982 Joined: 01.06.12 |
Zeegers wrote: This male not silvery, so it can't be Acrosathe, which is extremely silvery (you need sunglasses to look at it ). The halter is an issue indeed: it is totally dark in my male cinifera (n=1) and totally yellow in my male fulva (n=1). According to Stubbs, it is ' totally or partially dark' in cinifera. That would fit this one. Moreover, I don't expect fulva around Berlin, but I could be mistaken. My conclusion: likely male cinifera. Theo  yes I agree, it looks for sure more like a Thereva. I know the limits of keys and descriptions, and know that some patterns are not described... and moreover, there can be intermediate characters or, worse, even mutants (keys are static, genes aren't). So, whatever it is, it is. I guess that there is still much to write about this family.
Edited by ValerioW on 14-07-2016 13:50 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2016 17:08
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18547 Joined: 21.07.04 |
That is very interesting, Claudia. Even my memory is finite, i had totally forgotten about the other post. Still, I think we can all agree that the other male is eight times as orange as this one. General jizz is very Thereva cinifera. I would have liked a dark halter to be dead sure, but it is at least partly darkened..... Therevidae are   |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2016 17:08
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18547 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Oh, genitalia are distinct, so if you did collect it, we might still have a chance in the rebound..... Theo |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 14-07-2016 17:44
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
When I asked the little male for his genitalia, he said: (which I found quite comprehensible), and actually we met at 3.30 a.m. ... He was glad to leave my bathroom in a covered glass, and I let him out with my eyes half shut already. May he father many photogenic Thereva cinifera babies! Meanwhile I also found pics of the species (http://flickrhive...ra,thereva, http://www.boldsy...xid=483646) - looks fine! Edited by Sundew on 14-07-2016 17:51 |
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but don't see the image in the post.
