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 Anthomyiidae male Delia?> cf. Botanophila discreta
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| blowave |
Posted on 07-04-2011 23:39
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 Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Hello, 6th April, near Lincoln UK. Feeding on Brunnera. Size ~6mm Janet 
blowave attached the following image:  [94.54Kb] Edited by blowave on 11-04-2011 15:13 http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 07-04-2011 23:39
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
pic 2
blowave attached the following image:  [118.13Kb] http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 07-04-2011 23:39
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
crop
blowave attached the following image:  [99.69Kb] http://cubits.org... |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 08-04-2011 10:36
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 Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
I see/imagine a tibial spur and a long pre-alar. I tried this in the Delia key and ended up around D. interflua, but it doesn't mention the wide frons (too wide for D. platura?), and there was a lot of guess-work along the way. Could be miles off  |
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| blowave |
Posted on 08-04-2011 13:45
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
I thought the frons was too wide for Delia platura, but it has a Delia look about it. I checked the list we have, it's far too long to make a guess and there are very few Delia species in the gallery. I hope this can be identified, the wide frons might be the clue. Maybe Joke will know if D. interflua has a wide frons, or Michael Ackland if he spots this or maybe I could email him. I think we have another Anthomyiidae expert now, Verner. http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 08-04-2011 13:51
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
I searched the site and found some tips from Joke.. D.radicum / floralis = with rows of pv on t3 D.planipalpis = with broad frontal vitta D.carduiformis = also broad frontal vitta..... D.interflua = has strong yellow base of wings and calypters D. linearis = prealar absent http://diptera.in...ost_127235 Here's a possible D. interflua.. http://diptera.in...post_81305 http://cubits.org... |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 08-04-2011 14:15
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Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
I look forward to the experts' opinions! In Ackland's key it says the yellow squamae contrast with the brown wing bases in D. interflua, and I thought the first photo could be interpreted this way.
Edited by Stephen R on 08-04-2011 14:17 |
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| blowave |
Posted on 08-04-2011 16:51
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
The squamae do look to be yellow through a definite brown wing base I agree! As the frons is so broad I would have thought that would be mentioned. I found the host plant of D.planipalpis is Sinapis arvensis, I have a patch of that I think (I recognise the leaves) which I left on the north side of my south facing hedge. http://www.brc.ac...ceid=14294 Edited by blowave on 08-04-2011 16:52 http://cubits.org... |
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| blowave |
Posted on 11-04-2011 01:13
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Bumping up.. hoping someone can say more. 
http://cubits.org... |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 11-04-2011 11:03
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Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
The key only mentions features which are useful in distinguishing between the two options in the couplet. For D. planipalpis it reads: Hind femur with av setae in apical half only, no strong pv setae. Hind tibia with weak av present, a few small pv in basal half. Wings paler. Abdomen with median vitta distinct, sharply defined. Scutum greyer with only faint vittae. The comparisons are with D. floralis, and there's nothing about frontal width. From the hind femur D. radicum could be possible. I don't know if the frontal width varies within species - that would account for its not being used in the key. From what we can see I don't think we can rule out D. carduiformis (assuming the fore-tibial spur is an illusion). I think we need an expert
Edited by Stephen R on 11-04-2011 11:12 |
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| blowave |
Posted on 11-04-2011 13:07
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Thanks Stephen, that seems to rule out D. planipalpis. I think we need an expert too! I'll see if I can get Michael Ackland on the job. http://cubits.org... |
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| oxycera |
Posted on 11-04-2011 13:24
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Member Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire Posts: 251 Joined: 31.12.09 |
I would read what he says about digital identification in the latest Dipterists Bulletin first. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 11-04-2011 14:17
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
oxycera wrote: I would read what he says about digital identification in the latest Dipterists Bulletin first. Well John, I know your preference is to collect.  Too late, I have contacted Michael and regardless of what he might have had to say in the Dipterists Bulletin I would imagine it's more of a generalisation (I'm not going to read it and it is irrelevant to this post anyway). I would expect someone as professional as Michael to give an indication as to whether it is identifiable, sometimes it is possible but if not at least we have tried. I have no intention of naming anything to put in the gallery unless I feel the identifier has shown they are certain about the ID. http://cubits.org... |
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| Michael Ackland |
Posted on 11-04-2011 14:53
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Member Location: Dorset UK Posts: 680 Joined: 23.02.08 |
It looks like Botanophila discreta Meigen male. You would have to answer the following questions to be certain: Has hind tibia got a postventral apical seta? What is the 5th sternite like? How long is the proboscis? Has the Vein C got setulose hairs on the ventral surface? The reason why it is difficult to name Anthomyiidae from a photo is because one can't rely on general appearances, but need to know a lot of small characters which do not show up in a general photograph. Incidentally Botanophila discreta was recently separated from B. striolata, the latter having generally eyes closer together. Delia interflua would not occur as far south as this. |
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| blowave |
Posted on 11-04-2011 15:12
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Thank you Michael, I can see the difficulties with this one! Your mention of B. discreta being split from B. striolata brings up another dilemma! I had one last year which was identified as B. striolata, could it also be B. discreta? The eyes seem as far apart, but the fly was smaller and it didn't 'ring a bell'. http://diptera.in...ost_163490 By asking the question at least the record is here for others searching the site, which is a good thing as I often search the site for clues. http://cubits.org... |
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| javanerkelens |
Posted on 12-04-2011 22:53
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 Member Location: Netherlands Posts: 2962 Joined: 18.10.07 |
B.discreta.......then i have to check my B.striolata also again  Joke |
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| blowave |
Posted on 13-04-2011 00:18
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Member Location: LINCOLN, UK Posts: 3151 Joined: 27.06.07 |
Just when you think you have cracked it, along comes a split! Does this mean you also think my B. striolata could be B. discreta? http://cubits.org... |
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