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Calliphorid? Muscid? Sarcophagid? Help!!
Sundew	#1 Posted on 12-06-2010 23:43
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	Hi, As the thread title says, I am absolutely uncertain about this one. It had a greenish abdomen like a Bellardia, but wing venation with that peculiar m vein did not fit. So I really need help! The fly was photographed on 20 May. Many thanks, Sundew Sundew attached the following image: [152.6Kb] Edited by Sundew on 13-06-2010 11:29


Sundew	#2 Posted on 12-06-2010 23:43
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	More pics. Sundew attached the following image: [138.67Kb]


ChrisR	#3 Posted on 13-06-2010 08:23
Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04	Not a tachinid Manager of the UK Species Inventory in the Angela Marmont Centre for UK Biodiversity at the Natural History Museum, London.


Sundew	#4 Posted on 13-06-2010 11:29
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	That's what I thought! So a Calliphorid, a Muscid, or even a Sarcophagid??? Help, please...! (Such a nice fly, isn't it?)


Stephane Lebrun	#5 Posted on 13-06-2010 12:25
Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07	It is either Bellardia or Onesia (Calliphoridae). I can't count the ia, so I'm not able to tell which of them it is. Stephane.


Sundew	#6 Posted on 13-06-2010 14:36
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	St�phane, once more you are the big helper! So Calliphoridae indeed. I add a photo of a Bellardia seen in the same place on the same day that shows the difference in the bend of the m vein. If I understand you right, this bend may be different in different Bellardia species? And it is more important to count the ia - that should be the intra-alar setae, ok? I give a thorax magnification, so perhaps your keen eye sees more. I'd say 1-2 presut and 3 postsut, if I interpret the setae correctly (as to Jorge's overview in http://www.dipter...ad_id=8790). This is Bellardia. Sundew attached the following image: [178.22Kb]


Sundew	#7 Posted on 13-06-2010 14:36
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	Here comes the magnification. Sundew attached the following image: [183.67Kb]


Stephane Lebrun	#8 Posted on 14-06-2010 17:54
Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07	If I see well, there is 0 + 3 ia ; that would suggest Onesia floralis. The curved apical section of vein M, the very broad parafacialiae ant the rather long flagellomere speak for this species too. Stephane.


Sundew	#9 Posted on 14-06-2010 22:09
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	Ok, if the setae close to the head don't count, I can also see 0+3 ia. Onesia floralis is new to me and therefore very welcome. In the internet, however, you find a photo of the same fly titled either Onesia floralis or Bellardia viarum, syn. Onesia aculeata, which is confusing. In either case, wing venation is quite similar to my fly's. So I conclude that Onesia and Bellardia are closely related and that there is a varying degree of M vein bending and curving. We have no Onesia photo in the gallery; shall I submit it? The pictures of the female in http://www.google...s%3Disch:1 look a bit different... Thanks for all help, Sundew


Stephane Lebrun	#10 Posted on 14-06-2010 22:24
Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07	Please, don't trust IDs from this site. The male is a Bellardia (1+2 ia), and certainly not Onesia floralis which hasn't ventral long seta on mid tibia. The associated female is a Tachinid, maybe a Phorocera. The main differences between Onesia and Bellardia are the postsutural ia and the length of the 3d antennal segment, I don't think the bent of the last section of M is a reliable character to separate the two genera. I don't know if you can trust me enough to put your photos in the gallery, I am far from an expert. Only guessing... Stephane.


Sundew	#11 Posted on 14-06-2010 23:10
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	Good to know that that site is unreliable (and concomitantly it's a pity - I liked the overviews...). St�phane, don't be so self-depreciating, your knowledge is enormous. If you are no expert, what am I? An absolute greenhorn! And nevertheless others have already trusted my tentative guesses, gained by intensive googling, and added their photos to the gallery under the name suggested by me. As the proverb says, "Among the blind, the one-eyed is king." But you are a two-eyed for sure!


Paul Beuk	#12 Posted on 15-06-2010 08:32
Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19250 Joined: 11.05.04	Stephane Lebrun wrote: Please, don't trust IDs from this site. Quite: I had not expected Loxocera hoffmannseggi to look like this, indeed: http://www.comman...seggi.html; or Hilara nitidula like this: http://www.comman...idula.html; or Empis trigramma like this: http://www.comman...ramma.html. Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info


Sundew	#13 Posted on 15-06-2010 10:29
Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07	Nice examples indeed! However, the author of the site, Jim Lindsey, lists a lot of well-known dipterists (many are in our forum) that have helped in IDing, therefore I hoped for a certain degree of reliability. And he asks for corrections (http://www.comman...aveat.html). The problem is that our spare time is too rare to correct the many websites dedicated to insects. Some of them would really deserve it. So let us try to keep our gallery as good as possible. Please, experts, check the submitted photos now and then - the quality is fine, but also the name? If, e.g., the ID of the Limonia nigropunctata couple is solely based on my hint, I would at least add a very fat "cf."!

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