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Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Flies from a dead dog - Part 1 (Centrophlebomyia)
Gordon
#41 Print Post
Posted on 03-01-2010 10:58
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Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece
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jorgemotalmeida wrote:
This fly is among one of the most amazing thing in the Universe. Please collect for me that fantastic fly. This is almost in the top of wish list of flies!


In that case you had better give me your postal address.Wink
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jorgemotalmeida
#42 Print Post
Posted on 03-01-2010 12:35
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Smile thanks.
 
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Gordon
#43 Print Post
Posted on 09-01-2010 21:14
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This afternoon, whilst trying to sneak up on a pair of Golden Eagles (Which turned out to be out visiting friends, or just having a picnic) I found the fresh remains of a cow, some skin, otherwise all bone. There were C. furcata all over it, being very active in the 17C warmth, most unhelpful (photographically speaking). Of 23 flies caught off the skeleton 18 were C. furcata (assuming a correct determination on my part). The site was 7km west of the previous site and elevated 250 m ASL.

As I have already posted out new year gifts to Jorge, Tony, Phil and Stephane I propose to send this lot to Paul, as I have some other Piophilids to send him. If anybody else would like specimens they can contact Paul.

I would like to know if anybody knows of records of great size variety in this species. I do not have measuring facilities on my microscope but the size range (in terms of body length) is at least 100% and probably more - Paul can probably measure his when they arrive and I have asked Phil to do the same with those I sent him (handed to the N.P. Manager on Tuesday afternoon).
Edited by Gordon on 09-01-2010 21:15
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Gerard Pennards
#44 Print Post
Posted on 09-01-2010 21:29
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I would like a few Gordon, you can send them to Paul as well! Thanks in advance,
Greetings
Greetings,
Gerard Pennards
 
Paul Beuk
#45 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2010 09:54
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Gordon wrote:
I would like to know if anybody knows of records of great size variety in this species. I do not have measuring facilities on my microscope but the size range (in terms of body length) is at least 100% and probably more - Paul can probably measure his when they arrive and I have asked Phil to do the same with those I sent him (handed to the N.P. Manager on Tuesday afternoon).

I checked the specimens with the key to the two known species of Centrophlebomyia and they are furcata. Michelsen (1983) included the second species as anthropophaga but that has since been demonstrated to be a nomenclatorially invalid name to be considered a nomen dubium. The name under which we now know the species is orientalis Hendel, 1907. The latter has additional small setae next to the pair of large lateral scutellar setae (absent in furcata), has two fronto-orbital setae (presumed to be one in furcata but occasionally there are two with the large posterior one always placed on a black spot), and has larger eyes (genae about half as high as eyes, almost as high as eyes in furcata). C. orientalis also is smaller (more complicated character with the size variation observed) and is more glossy.
A character given in Michelsen's key that does not appear to apply is the one of the microtrichia on the wing membrane. The base of the wing in C. furcata is not supposed to have patches on the membrane that are devoid of microtrichia (or with very short microtrichia only) but in furcata specimens I have the bare patches are present.

The papers dealing with Centrophlobomyia I have seen do not mention anything specific about variation in adult size. Freidberg (1981) gave some illustrations, one with a couple in the intercopulatory stage. In this picture the male is about 30% bigger han the female. As this is a species that may have to do with scarce resources for larval food it is possible that (lack of sufficient) resources may influence the adult size considerably (see for example the large size variation in Scathophaga stercoraria).

Just to get all facts together: Who did already receive specimens of Centrophlobomyia and how many males and females did you get?
Paul

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phil withers
#46 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2010 10:38
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I have 4 males and 4 females: one of the males is three times as large as the others, but the females are all of similar size. I agree that this is probably a phenomenon allied to scarce resources as a larva: see also the variability in e.g. Lucilia.
 
Stephane Lebrun
#47 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2010 11:44
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1 male and 1 female for me, both 5 mm length.
Stephane.
 
jorgemotalmeida
#48 Print Post
Posted on 08-02-2010 12:34
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1 male, 1 female here. (5-6 mm size) I'll check the sizes later this weekend.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 08-02-2010 12:35
 
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Tony Irwin
#49 Print Post
Posted on 09-02-2010 00:42
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One male (6.9mm) and one female (5.9mm), and belated, but heartfelt thanks. Smile SmileSmileSmile
Tony
----------
Tony Irwin
 
Gordon
#50 Print Post
Posted on 09-02-2010 12:41
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Yes I suspected the size variation was a larval fod thing, but I thought it might be nice to have a set of exact measurements.

Just to keep you guys posted, I am making arrangements, or trying to make arrangements to visit two vulture feeding stations, lots of cow and pig bones left lying around, one in Nestos, and one in Dadia (near the border with Turkey) in this way I may be able to get more data on distribution here in northern Greece.


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Gordon
#51 Print Post
Posted on 21-02-2010 21:10
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Just got back from a trip to Dadia Forest (Turkish border) and the Nestos Gorge (half way between Kerkini and Dadia), I successfully collected C. furcata at both sites - the Nestos site is at 690 metres and was blowing a gale, the flies were crawling around carefully, hard to find but there, Dadia was easy. Now I will try and get permission to visit vulture feeding site at Prespa (on the far western side of the country) - finally I will try to get to Majhorova in Bulgaria. Meanwhile I am researching other feeding sites in the Balkans.

Jorge do you know anybody who could check out the feeding sites in Spain.
http://www.birdgu...asp?a=1297
Not sure what anybody would find, as they don't seem to use whole carcasses in all the sites, as they do in Greece.

All the material I collect will go to Paul for measurement - I'm feeling that size is important OKGrin - anybody who wants specimens for their collections should contact him, or come and visit me here in Greece.awkward

Centrophlebomyia furcata,
how I love your name.
Though I have mouthed a lot of flies
they just don't sound the same.

Centro
phlebo
my i a

also called 'furcata'

Is a fly
about which I
have just obtained some data.

Sad
Edited by Gordon on 22-02-2010 09:04
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jorgemotalmeida
#52 Print Post
Posted on 21-02-2010 21:42
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yes, Gordon. I can ask if any my Spanish friends can check those sites. When I have any news on this I will inform you.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 21-02-2010 21:43
 
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Gordon
#53 Print Post
Posted on 22-02-2010 09:05
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Thanks Jorge. It will be interesting.
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Paul Beuk
#54 Print Post
Posted on 14-09-2010 16:08
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So, who were still in need of specimens of this interesting species? I am working my way through Gordon's vials of this year's catches and just opened the one from Dadia Forest. The Roupel's Gorge one is also still next to the microscope...
Paul

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Gerard Pennards
#55 Print Post
Posted on 14-09-2010 16:38
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Ikke!! GrinGrinGrin
Greetings,
Gerard Pennards
 
Paul Beuk
#56 Print Post
Posted on 14-09-2010 19:38
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You were already on the list. Pfft
Paul

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L Pelozuelo
#57 Print Post
Posted on 20-10-2023 10:01
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Hi everyone.

I just send a personnal message to G. Ramel : Colleagues and I just found C. anthropophaga in France and, when we compare our pictures to the first picture send by Gordon we feel this specimen was a C anthropophaga. As it seems that Gordon send some specimens to the members of this forum, could you check those specimens according to the identification key provided by Mei et al. (2013) ?
You can e-mail me directly at laurent.pelozuelo/arobase/univ-tlse3.fr

C anthopophaga is less darker and more orangish ; the thorax bear fewer non microtomentose area (area that are visible on pictures as dark black spots) ; the microtomentose area on the occiput is restrictred to the occiput (while it extend frontward along the eyes margin on C furcata).

Thank you for your help,
Bien cordialement,
Laurent,
 
Jan Maca
#58 Print Post
Posted on 20-10-2023 19:06
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I noticed in this long discussion: "I heard Thyreophora and alikes may be virtually extinct from Europe". Yes, of course. To another post in the same discussion: "(C. furcata) known from Czech Republic and Sardinia according to FE". From the territory of Czech Republic it was known just in 1860s (then this country was a part of Oesterreich-Ungarn).
 
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