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 Macro lenses
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| crex |
Posted on 31-05-2006 08:19
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 Member Location: Sweden Posts: 1996 Joined: 22.05.06 |
I guess most of you use DSRL or perhaps analog cameras to shoot insects. I wonder what macro lens focal lengths you recommend. I think I'm going for a Sigma 150mm, or maybe a 100mm. It seems that many macro photographers use long macro lenses, up to 200mm. I guess it is to get shots without the fly moving away ... |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 31-05-2006 11:03
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9223 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Hi Crex. I use Canon 20D camera. As for lens, I use Canon macro 100mm/2,8. I have also 70-300macro, 50mm, 24mm (all Sigma). Sometime all this lens are usefull, but for me 100mm is the best for Diptera (Odonata - 300mm, Coleoptera - 50mm). But I'm sure that choise of lens is very much matter of personal test, preferable group and tacks you want to solve. Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| crex |
Posted on 31-05-2006 11:27
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Member Location: Sweden Posts: 1996 Joined: 22.05.06 |
OK, thanks. I forgot to mention that I'm going for a Canon EOS 30D with 1.6 frame ratio. I guess it will be a bit different with a full frame DSLR. In the future I might also want to get the MP-E 65 to get really close (5:1) to the objects. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 31-05-2006 13:03
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9223 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I forgot to add, that according my opinion: 1. 1,6 frame ratio much better for macrophografy than normal 1:1. 2. Sigma (or Canon) cheape 50mm lens with macrorings will give you same 5:1 as MP-E 65 Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| pierred |
Posted on 31-05-2006 23:14
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 Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Hello, crex wrote: OK, thanks. I forgot to mention that I'm going for a Canon EOS 30D with 1.6 frame ratio. I guess it will be a bit different with a full frame DSLR. In the future I might also want to get the MP-E 65 to get really close (5:1) to the objects. I'm shooting with a 20D + Canon 100 and I think this is a very good combination for free hand shooting. On the other hand, if you want to shoot with a tripod, every other solution can be fine. For instance, the Canon 65 mm makes wonders, but don't expect to shoot free hand with it. On the other hand, all old "savage solutions" like coupling two 50 mm lenses can still work for some special needs. I always have an old plain 50 mm with me, just in case, to be used just as a close-up lense, and I sometimes got good pictures with such an optical construct (even if I have to crop them afterwards because of the vignetting). Pierre Duhem |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-08-2006 20:01
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
I will have a budget of 2000 euros to buy a new camera and lenses... I thought in these: > Canon 350D (the results would be the same with Canon 30D that just wins in Formula 1, and sports photos.  but as I don?t care about sports photo.. Just Canon 5D would be the next buy after Canon 350D not 30D...) > camera with 18-200 mm Sigma (for general) Now I have doubts... I want to make real macro! To hymenopters, coleopters, odonata, DIPTERS (of course), slime molds, spiders (I will take more photo of these and dipters), and all animal, fungi, protista, and vegetal regnum.  ))Macro lenses adviced? > Tamron 90 mm? > Sigma 180 mm > I wish LPE-65 mm but it is very expensive and I leave this for next buy... A macro converter would be need?? And what about macro rings to try inverted lenses??? Finally, after lenses choosed which flash do you advice??? Please help me to do a list for an excellent conjunt of macrophotography by 2000 euros. Remember that I want take photos of spiders, dipters, hymenopters, odonata... I wish which lenses are more indicated for this! Thank you! |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 11-08-2006 20:38
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 Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
[quote]jorgemotalmeida wrote: I will have a budget of 2000 euros to buy a new camera and lenses... > Canon 350D (the results would be the same with Canon 30D that just wins in Formula 1, and sports photos. but as I don?t care about sports photo.. Just Canon 5D would be the next buy after Canon 350D not 30D...) I have this camera and I like it a lot, but note that the camera body is *very* small. Many who have tried it found it just too small. It is barely large enough for me and I have the hands of a small girl  >I want to make real macro! To hymenopters, coleopters, odonata, DIPTERS (of course), slime molds, spiders (I will take more photo of these and dipters), and all animal, fungi, protista, and vegetal regnum. ))Macro lenses adviced? > Tamron 90 mm? > Sigma 180 mm Macrophotography is more about technique than the lens. In fact it is all about technique, any macro lens will do. Around 100mm is good for most insects. A short lens (20-24mm?) with extension rings will allow you to include both insect and habitat in the same photo. If you plan to photograph smaller insects outdoors you'll probably benefit a lot from a good flash rig or ringflash, something like this: http://www.eritja...suport.htm You can buy flash brackets, but building your own is not hard and much cheaper. So my recommendation is that do not worry about lenses; DO worry about lighting your targets. Kahis |
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| LordV |
Posted on 11-08-2006 20:38
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Member Location: Posts: 671 Joined: 06.09.05 |
Not sure about the budget but I would get the 350D or 30D camera not the 5d as it has less resolution if you are cropping pics. Lenses either the canon 100mm or sigma 105mm longer lenses may give you more focus distance but they lose out on weight, portability and ease of flash lighting. I would get a set of extension tubes - either Kenko or Jessops. You will also need a flash bracket, off camera flash cord and a decent ETTL flash gun- canon 430EX is good. either buy or make a diffuser. You can see info on my camera setups here http://www.flickr.com/groups/mimicry/discuss/66514/ and my photo gallery here http://www.flickr.com/photos/lordv Brian V. Edited by LordV on 11-08-2006 20:39 |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 11-08-2006 20:50
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9223 Joined: 24.05.05 |
I have to add that Canon D20 permits to use simple build-in camera's flash with lens Canon 100/2,8 macro. So I always use in mode -1 step, usualy. Otherwise you'll think about good light and lost fly itself. As Kahis said D350 too small (1), D20 immedaitely ready for job (D350 - 2sec of waiting, often critical) (2), D350 - 1 season of real job, D20 resourse and price - two time more (3). Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-08-2006 21:09
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
[quote]Kahis wrote: [quote]jorgemotalmeida wrote: I will have a budget of 2000 euros to buy a new camera and lenses... > Canon 350D (the results would be the same with Canon 30D that just wins in Formula 1, and sports photos. but as I don?t care about sports photo.. Just Canon 5D would be the next buy after Canon 350D not 30D...) I have this camera and I like it a lot, but note that the camera body is *very* small. Many who have tried it found it just too small. It is barely large enough for me and I have the hands of a small girl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have very small hands too. Almost like a baby girl. ))  The small size of camera is no problem! (Indeed, I did take photos with 350D thrice time so I know that the camera fits great with my hands. )] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-08-2006 21:56
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
After all, thank you Brian, Kahis and Nikita. "Let?s go for parts" like say Jack, the Ripper... (black humour..) KAHIS: "If you plan to photograph smaller insects outdoors you'll probably benefit a lot from a good flash rig or ringflash, something like this: http://www.eritja.com/a_suport.htm You can buy flash brackets, but building your own is not hard and much cheaper." Ok. Now I know that light is very important. Or better, I knew but relegated for a second plan... now, I see this is an important issue to get good macrophotos. thanks for the link. If I can buy a ringflash for 350D or 20D which do you advice? (any other can answer of course!) LORDV: I know your flickr site. Besides, you know mine. (remember omeuceu? "I would get a set of extension tubes - either Kenko or Jessops." Can you tell the precise set you choose for macrophotography please? Thank you. "You will also need a flash bracket, off camera flash cord and a decent ETTL flash gun- canon 430EX is good. either buy or make a diffuser." Is this flash will be enough if I get 105 mm or 100 mm macrolense Sigma? NIKITA: "I have to add that Canon D20 permits to use simple build-in camera's flash with lens Canon 100/2,8 macro. So I always use in mode -1 step, usualy. Otherwise you'll think about good light and lost fly itself. As Kahis said D350 too small (1), D20 immedaitely ready for job (D350 - 2sec of waiting, often critical) (2), D350 - 1 season of real job, D20 resourse and price - two time more (3)." 2 sec of waiting is not good for insects... With my old camera - Nikon Coolpix 3100 - I must waited about 10 seconds (or more!) sometimes just to take the next photo... so, see my face when I realized that fly, or any insect escaped to far away.  Are you really advice to buy canon 20D? Believe that the size doesn?t matter because I did take photos with canon 350D without problems to manage it. My old Nikon Coolpix 3100 (now died...) was very small indeed, and never gets problems about that. to all: so in resume: 1 - Canon 350D / 20D ... (I need more comments, and read more reviews 2 - sigma 18-200 mm (this is for general) 3 - sigma 100 / 105 mm? 4 - one set of extension tubes (need more details) 5 - a lense 24 mm... 6 - a very good flash >> canon 430 EX or a ringflash >> which one?? any else?.. I feel that I forget something... please keep on to feedback so I can do a great shop! And most important: have a good material for macrophotography. I know the technique is important. For the final result, it doesn?t count just the material. Thank you again to all. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-08-2006 22:05
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
AH! One important question! Sorry for some publicity but it is for a good cause. I need to know if you can advice some very trust sites that sell (in Europe, and who can deliver the material for Portugal) this kind of material. I know just one: http://www.technikdirekt.de (or teknikdirekt.se/ sweden...) . I choose international because some cameras are more cheap outside of Portugal.. (I prefer that website gives warranty to material...) Thank you for your attention! |
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| crex |
Posted on 11-08-2006 22:47
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Member Location: Sweden Posts: 1996 Joined: 22.05.06 |
I finally got my Canon EOS 30D and Sigma 150 mm macro lens. The 350D was far too small for my hands. My latest submitted photos from late july and august is taken with this setup. I still have a lot to learn how to use this camera. I have no external flashlight yet. I think I will get either the ringlight from Canon or the corresponding Sigma ringlight. I'll get the MP-E 65* (x1-5x) later and hopefully the ringlights will work with both the 150 mm and the 65 mm ... One thing I have realized is I can't take 150 mm photos without my tripod. I have been thinking about a monopod, but I don't really think this will be steady enough because the depth of field is so narrow. * I'm not really sure this is of any use outdoors, but I need the 1x-5x magnification for all the small insects. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 11-08-2006 23:23
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
crex wrote: I finally got my Canon EOS 30D and Sigma 150 mm macro lens. The 350D was far too small for my hands. My latest submitted photos from late july and august is taken with this setup. I still have a lot to learn how to use this camera. I have no external flashlight yet. I think I will get either the ringlight from Canon or the corresponding Sigma ringlight. I'll get the MP-E 65* (x1-5x) later and hopefully the ringlights will work with both the 150 mm and the 65 mm ... One thing I have realized is I can't take 150 mm photos without my tripod. I have been thinking about a monopod, but I don't really think this will be steady enough because the depth of field is so narrow. * I'm not really sure this is of any use outdoors, but I need the 1x-5x magnification for all the small insects. Which ringflash are you think to buy? MPE 65 I wish. ) |
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| crex |
Posted on 11-08-2006 23:32
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Member Location: Sweden Posts: 1996 Joined: 22.05.06 |
I'm must check if this fits both the lenses I mentioned, but maybe a Sigma EM-140 DG Macro Flash. |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 12-08-2006 08:17
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Member Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
Nikita Vikhrev wrote: As Kahis said D350 too small (1), D20 immedaitely ready for job (D350 - 2sec of waiting, often critical) I have not found this to be a problem. The wait is closer to 1 second I think; if you turn the on/off switch the camera is *almost* ready before you have lifted it to eye level. Perhaps it depend a bit on the model of memory card used? Kahis |
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| LordV |
Posted on 12-08-2006 08:45
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Member Location: Posts: 671 Joined: 06.09.05 |
Thought this might be of interest to some of you. 1. the flash is mounted on a generic vidcam light bracket that I drilled through the top fitting and mounted a small ballhead on. The off camera flash cable fits on the ballhead. This allows me to move the diffuser/flash head to the end of the lens no matter what lens combo I have on at the time (I've successfully used it with a full set of ext tubes (65mm) and a reversed 50mm lens on the end of the macro lens). 2. For stabilisation in the field (actually my garden) I use a bean pole I simply grip the bean pole in my left hand at the required height and also grip the flash bracket handle (this does work even if you do not have a flash bracket). I've successfully used this method for shots upto 4:1 magnification (with an MPE-65). The bean pole is of course very fast to set up unlike a tripod or even a monopod. 3. Fitting a flash bracket to a camera solves any problems with the size of the camera and being able to hold it easily. 4. Focus is achieved by fixing the required magnification on the lens and then gently swaying back and forth and firing the shutter as you pass through focus (ie completely manual focus). Moving in this manner and not trying to hold focus prevents camera shake. Brian V.   |
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| LordV |
Posted on 12-08-2006 08:54
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Member Location: Posts: 671 Joined: 06.09.05 |
jorgemotalmeida wrote: After all, thank you Brian, Kahis and Nikita. Ok. Now I know that light is very important. Or better, I knew but relegated for a second plan... now, I see this is an important issue to get good macrophotos. thanks for the link. If I can buy a ringflash for 350D or 20D which do you advice? (any other can answer of course!) Answer I actually would not buy a ringflash- they are very expensive, give very flat looking pictures (low contrast- even lighting) and are hard to diffuse unless you get the even more expensive twin flash types. Brian V. LORDV: I know your flickr site. Besides, you know mine. (remember omeuceu? "I would get a set of extension tubes - either Kenko or Jessops." Can you tell the precise set you choose for macrophotography please? Thank you. Answer- It does not matter- if you can get the Jessops tubes via mail order they are cheaper and have one advantage over the Kenko tubes in that they will take an EF-S lens size. Brian V. "You will also need a flash bracket, off camera flash cord and a decent ETTL flash gun- canon 430EX is good. either buy or make a diffuser." Is this flash will be enough if I get 105 mm or 100 mm macrolense Sigma? Answer I've used the 430EX or the Sigma 500 super DG both very successfully with all sorts of lens configurations. But you do need a movable flash bracket to be able to keep the flash head near the end of the lens. Brian V. Thank you again to all. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 12-08-2006 16:36
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
LordV wrote: [/quote]After all, thank you Brian, Kahis and Nikita. Ok. Now I know that light is very important. Or better, I knew but relegated for a second plan... now, I see this is an important issue to get good macrophotos. thanks for the link. If I can buy a ringflash for 350D or 20D which do you advice? (any other can answer of course!) Answer I actually would not buy a ringflash- they are very expensive, give very flat looking pictures (low contrast- even lighting) and are hard to diffuse unless you get the even more expensive twin flash types. Brian V. "You will also need a flash bracket, off camera flash cord and a decent ETTL flash gun- canon 430EX is good. either buy or make a diffuser." Is this flash will be enough if I get 105 mm or 100 mm macrolense Sigma? Answer I've used the 430EX or the Sigma 500 super DG both very successfully with all sorts of lens configurations. But you do need a movable flash bracket to be able to keep the flash head near the end of the lens. Brian V. Thank you again to all. Oh... I have just seeing this one. I emailed you a few moments ago. Thank you for the answer. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2006 13:45
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
does it matter to do real macrophotography of insects/spiders to get a canon 30D and not Canon 350D? Besides that a bit more speed in shutter... and 1,6 frame ratio? Can the price difference justify the buy of canon 30D and not 350D? Please, quick answer. Thank you!!! ohh.... what do you think about 30D (with EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 Lens) - for 750 GBP = 1 112 EUROS = 1 420 USD ? (new, of course!) Thank you! |
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