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 Flies from a dead dog - Part 1 (Centrophlebomyia)
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| Gordon |
Posted on 03-01-2010 11:58
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 Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
jorgemotalmeida wrote: This fly is among one of the most amazing thing in the Universe. Please collect for me that fantastic fly. This is almost in the top of wish list of flies! In that case you had better give me your postal address. 
Gordon |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 03-01-2010 13:35
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
 thanks. |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 09-01-2010 22:14
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
This afternoon, whilst trying to sneak up on a pair of Golden Eagles (Which turned out to be out visiting friends, or just having a picnic) I found the fresh remains of a cow, some skin, otherwise all bone. There were C. furcata all over it, being very active in the 17C warmth, most unhelpful (photographically speaking). Of 23 flies caught off the skeleton 18 were C. furcata (assuming a correct determination on my part). The site was 7km west of the previous site and elevated 250 m ASL. As I have already posted out new year gifts to Jorge, Tony, Phil and Stephane I propose to send this lot to Paul, as I have some other Piophilids to send him. If anybody else would like specimens they can contact Paul. I would like to know if anybody knows of records of great size variety in this species. I do not have measuring facilities on my microscope but the size range (in terms of body length) is at least 100% and probably more - Paul can probably measure his when they arrive and I have asked Phil to do the same with those I sent him (handed to the N.P. Manager on Tuesday afternoon). Edited by Gordon on 09-01-2010 22:15 Gordon |
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| Gerard Pennards |
Posted on 09-01-2010 22:29
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 Member Location: Amersfoort Posts: 1914 Joined: 07.06.04 |
I would like a few Gordon, you can send them to Paul as well! Thanks in advance, Greetings Greetings, Gerard Pennards |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 08-02-2010 10:54
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19363 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Gordon wrote: I would like to know if anybody knows of records of great size variety in this species. I do not have measuring facilities on my microscope but the size range (in terms of body length) is at least 100% and probably more - Paul can probably measure his when they arrive and I have asked Phil to do the same with those I sent him (handed to the N.P. Manager on Tuesday afternoon). I checked the specimens with the key to the two known species of Centrophlebomyia and they are furcata. Michelsen (1983) included the second species as anthropophaga but that has since been demonstrated to be a nomenclatorially invalid name to be considered a nomen dubium. The name under which we now know the species is orientalis Hendel, 1907. The latter has additional small setae next to the pair of large lateral scutellar setae (absent in furcata), has two fronto-orbital setae (presumed to be one in furcata but occasionally there are two with the large posterior one always placed on a black spot), and has larger eyes (genae about half as high as eyes, almost as high as eyes in furcata). C. orientalis also is smaller (more complicated character with the size variation observed) and is more glossy. A character given in Michelsen's key that does not appear to apply is the one of the microtrichia on the wing membrane. The base of the wing in C. furcata is not supposed to have patches on the membrane that are devoid of microtrichia (or with very short microtrichia only) but in furcata specimens I have the bare patches are present. The papers dealing with Centrophlobomyia I have seen do not mention anything specific about variation in adult size. Freidberg (1981) gave some illustrations, one with a couple in the intercopulatory stage. In this picture the male is about 30% bigger han the female. As this is a species that may have to do with scarce resources for larval food it is possible that (lack of sufficient) resources may influence the adult size considerably (see for example the large size variation in Scathophaga stercoraria). Just to get all facts together: Who did already receive specimens of Centrophlobomyia and how many males and females did you get? Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 08-02-2010 11:38
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Member Location: Lyon, France Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
I have 4 males and 4 females: one of the males is three times as large as the others, but the females are all of similar size. I agree that this is probably a phenomenon allied to scarce resources as a larva: see also the variability in e.g. Lucilia. |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 08-02-2010 12:44
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
1 male and 1 female for me, both 5 mm length.
Stephane. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-02-2010 13:34
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
1 male, 1 female here. (5-6 mm size) I'll check the sizes later this weekend.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 08-02-2010 13:35 |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 09-02-2010 01:42
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 Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7232 Joined: 19.11.04 |
One male (6.9mm) and one female (5.9mm), and belated, but heartfelt thanks.
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 09-02-2010 13:41
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Yes I suspected the size variation was a larval fod thing, but I thought it might be nice to have a set of exact measurements. Just to keep you guys posted, I am making arrangements, or trying to make arrangements to visit two vulture feeding stations, lots of cow and pig bones left lying around, one in Nestos, and one in Dadia (near the border with Turkey) in this way I may be able to get more data on distribution here in northern Greece. Gordon |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 21-02-2010 22:10
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Just got back from a trip to Dadia Forest (Turkish border) and the Nestos Gorge (half way between Kerkini and Dadia), I successfully collected C. furcata at both sites - the Nestos site is at 690 metres and was blowing a gale, the flies were crawling around carefully, hard to find but there, Dadia was easy. Now I will try and get permission to visit vulture feeding site at Prespa (on the far western side of the country) - finally I will try to get to Majhorova in Bulgaria. Meanwhile I am researching other feeding sites in the Balkans. Jorge do you know anybody who could check out the feeding sites in Spain. http://www.birdgu...asp?a=1297 Not sure what anybody would find, as they don't seem to use whole carcasses in all the sites, as they do in Greece. All the material I collect will go to Paul for measurement - I'm feeling that size is important OK  - anybody who wants specimens for their collections should contact him, or come and visit me here in Greece. Centrophlebomyia furcata, how I love your name. Though I have mouthed a lot of flies they just don't sound the same. Centro phlebo my i a also called 'furcata' Is a fly about which I have just obtained some data. 
Edited by Gordon on 22-02-2010 10:04 Gordon |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 21-02-2010 22:42
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
yes, Gordon. I can ask if any my Spanish friends can check those sites. When I have any news on this I will inform you.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 21-02-2010 22:43 |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 22-02-2010 10:05
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Thanks Jorge. It will be interesting.
Gordon |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 14-09-2010 17:08
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19363 Joined: 11.05.04 |
So, who were still in need of specimens of this interesting species? I am working my way through Gordon's vials of this year's catches and just opened the one from Dadia Forest. The Roupel's Gorge one is also still next to the microscope...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Gerard Pennards |
Posted on 14-09-2010 17:38
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Member Location: Amersfoort Posts: 1914 Joined: 07.06.04 |
Ikke!!
Greetings, Gerard Pennards |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 14-09-2010 20:38
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Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19363 Joined: 11.05.04 |
You were already on the list. 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| L Pelozuelo |
Posted on 20-10-2023 11:01
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Member Location: Posts: 1 Joined: 28.03.23 |
Hi everyone. I just send a personnal message to G. Ramel : Colleagues and I just found C. anthropophaga in France and, when we compare our pictures to the first picture send by Gordon we feel this specimen was a C anthropophaga. As it seems that Gordon send some specimens to the members of this forum, could you check those specimens according to the identification key provided by Mei et al. (2013) ? You can e-mail me directly at laurent.pelozuelo/arobase/univ-tlse3.fr C anthopophaga is less darker and more orangish ; the thorax bear fewer non microtomentose area (area that are visible on pictures as dark black spots) ; the microtomentose area on the occiput is restrictred to the occiput (while it extend frontward along the eyes margin on C furcata). Thank you for your help, Bien cordialement, Laurent, |
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| Jan Maca |
Posted on 20-10-2023 20:06
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Member Location: Posts: 1204 Joined: 25.03.10 |
I noticed in this long discussion: "I heard Thyreophora and alikes may be virtually extinct from Europe". Yes, of course. To another post in the same discussion: "(C. furcata) known from Czech Republic and Sardinia according to FE". From the territory of Czech Republic it was known just in 1860s (then this country was a part of Oesterreich-Ungarn). |
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