Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 Hemipenthes - two species or one?
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| treebeard |
Posted on 12-07-2014 21:02
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Member Location: Slovakia Posts: 614 Joined: 13.08.13 |
Hi all, Today I took a photo of probable Hemipenthes maurus. I compared it to older picture and now I am not sure, whether both pictures are of the same species. Can anybody help me? Picture from 12 July 2014, Starohorske mts., Carpathians, Slovakia, 550 m.a.s.l., forested valey: treebeard attached the following image:  [180.36Kb] |
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| treebeard |
Posted on 12-07-2014 21:05
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Member Location: Slovakia Posts: 614 Joined: 13.08.13 |
And picture form 21 July 2013, Banska Bystrica, Carpathians, Slovajkia, only 400 m.a.s.l., dry grassland in patchy landscape
treebeard attached the following image:  [105.06Kb] |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 13:48
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 Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Hi, treebreard  As far as I know both specimens only can be Hemipenthes maurus  The extention of the dark areas on the wing can be rather variable (anything to do with both sexs? I don't know about that, but it happens in the specimens I see here in Spain). But the existence of transparent windows on the dark areas of the wing leaves no chance for another similar species. Besides those similar species are absent in your area.Hope this helps
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 13-07-2014 13:48 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 13-07-2014 15:30
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I agree with the second. the first, however, has clear fenestrae in the wing. therefore, it must be celomene, jacchus or similar species.mAs far as I can see the antenna, I'd favour the first. Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 15:58
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
But Theo, jacchus and cleomene are Exoprosopa genus, with different abdominal and thorathic pattern and also different venation (Exoprosopa has an additional crossed vein in the apical area that Hemipenthes and the specimens in the pictures lack )
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 13-07-2014 15:58 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 13-07-2014 20:03
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I agree the additional crossvein is lacking, so it can't be Exoprosopa. Still, hard to believe this is one and the same species. Any other options in the Carpathians ? Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 20:39
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
The only Hemipenthes that look similar to H. maura are H. villeneuvi (Pyrenees and Alps) y H. vockerothi (Spanish endemism). Those two are told apart from maura due to the absence of fenestrae in the dark areas of the wings. So it cannot be any of those. There is a species from southern Russia that I don't know anything about: H. eversmanni. Unless it is that one, no other chance than maura. Because one thing is certain: those two specimens are Hemipenthes
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 13-07-2014 20:40 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 13-07-2014 20:49
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
All these alternatives are pretty unlikeky in Slovakia. The variation in the dark wingbar reaching the hind margin or not, is quite baffling. Maybe you should look into it ? Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 21:11
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
I have looked into it and the only thing I can do is to post pictures of two different specimens of Hemipenthes maura photographed in the same day in the same spot in Navacerrada pass (Madrid mountains, Spain) in July 2011. Here is one of them: Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [161.74Kb] Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 13-07-2014 21:15 |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 21:14
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
And this is the other one. I keep thinking that the extension of the wingbar has to do with the sexes. It happens in Exoprosopa. Why not in Hemipenthes too? It wouldn't be too surprising.
Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [143.72Kb] |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 13-07-2014 21:20
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
And just to compare, a Hemipenthes vockerothi, in Sierra Nevada (SE Spain) in August 2013. Pay attention to the complete white band in the abdomen (not truncated in the middle) and the wings without fenestrae. H. villeneuvi should look the same.
Piluca_Alvarez attached the following image:  [144.16Kb] |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2014 06:51
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Nice pictures ! Can you sex them from picture or is that impossible ? Theo |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 14-07-2014 09:12
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Theo, I cannot sex Hemipenthes through pictures in general terms  However, in the case of H. maura, I have read this in Engel:Die hellen Seitenstreifen des Mesonotums meist gelblich. Flügelzeichnung variabel; beim Maennchen endet meist der dunkle, hakenförmige Streifen, welcher die Diskalzelle distal umzieht, in der 2. Hinterrandzelle, während er bei den meisten Weibchen den Hinterrand des Flügels erreicht. With my poor German, I think it refers exactly to the extension of the wingbar in both sexes. Can you confirm? If it is so, something else I know for sure
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 15-07-2014 05:40 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2014 17:47
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
You german is not nearly so poor as you cleim it to be! Theo |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 14-07-2014 17:48
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19291 Joined: 21.07.04 |
sorry for the typo 'claim' |
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| Piluca_Alvarez |
Posted on 15-07-2014 05:37
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Member Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 2431 Joined: 06.11.10 |
Thanks a lot, Theo!  I swear it is very poor indeed but I can manage Google translator into Spanish makes less sense than what I can understand by my own in this case  If you think the statement in Engel is convincing enough, can treebeard finally put a name to his Hemipenthes? Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 15-07-2014 05:38 |
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| treebeard |
Posted on 15-07-2014 22:22
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Member Location: Slovakia Posts: 614 Joined: 13.08.13 |
Wow! I did not expect so extensive converstaion. Thank you very much, I learned some new things. As far as I understood your converastion, both specimens are H. maura. It means no surprise, I found out that there are only three Hemipententes species in Slovak checklist, maura, morio and velutinus. Matej Edited by treebeard on 15-07-2014 22:30 |
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