Thread subject: Diptera.info :: Dolichopodidae: Argyra magnicornis/setimana => Argyra cf diaphana (female)
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:17
#1
Sweden, Degeberga 2018-06-04, 6-7 mm
Found dead indoors
Edited by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:09
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:18
#2
dorsal
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:18
#3
head
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:19
#4
face
Posted by Paul Beuk on 04-06-2018 12:53
#5
Argyra or
Rhaphium, I think
Posted by John Carr on 04-06-2018 13:47
#6
In the Nearctic,
Argyra can have hairs on the scape while
Rhaphium never does. The same should be true in Europe.
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 15:22
#7
Thanks Paul and John !
Following Igor G´s key et runs to Argyra magnicornis/setimana. Is it possible to tell the difference in females ?
/Leif K
Posted by johnes81 on 04-06-2018 15:56
#8
very nice photos :)
I have a copy of Grichanov's keys and i end up at
Argyra loewi.
i see a hypopygium. I'm not experienced with this genus or the keys to this genus but a hypopygium is present in my opinion.
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:43
#9
Thanks for your input John and Nini !
Maybe you are correct and this is a male ...
Do these images help to settle the sex ?
First lateral view.
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:44
#10
ventral view
Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:47
#11
if it is a male then it should depend on the hairs on mesonotum.
Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs => A. loewi
Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs => A. setima
Posted by johnes81 on 04-06-2018 22:16
#12
skrylten wrote:
Thanks for your input John and Nini !
Maybe you are correct and this is a male ...
I think that it is a female. However, how can you arrive at
magnicornis when hairs on the mesonotum are not restricted to the anterior part? i see hairs scattered around the mesonotum. If this is
magnicornis, then these keys are a bit misleading. I say that because hairs should not be found beyond the anterior area and 'covered' means there are absolutley no spaces without a hair. I have used Grichanov's keys for Dolichopus and i find the keys to be a delight. Thus, i think that
magnicornis is not correct. I see a large structure at the tip of the abdomen. Is this not a hypopygium?
I diagree with both of the following entries"
"Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" - diaphana and hoffmeisteri
"Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs in addition to setae" - magnicornis and setimana
So if this isn't a match, then shouldn't we back up and start over?
I think that the problem is the following key:
"2. Males: hypopygium present...3
– Females: hypopygium absent...19"
I guess my logic is that if a female has a hypopygium, then follow the key to number 3. Perhaps that is not correct but i see hairs beyond the anterior part of the mesonotum and i cannot agree that the mesonotum is 'covered' with hairs.
Perhaps we can find an email address for Grichanov and ask him about it.
Posted by Igor Grichanov on 05-06-2018 09:12
#13
It is obviously female, keys to
diaphana (Fabricius) and
hoffmeisteri (Loew), but the latter is rare, being not known in Sweden.
Posted by johnes81 on 05-06-2018 11:42
#14
atleast we confirm it isn't
magnicornis.
For
diaphana, I will change my keys from "Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" to "Mesonotum with hairs beyond anterior region in addition to setae".
Posted by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:05
#15
Thanks Igor for the clarification and your Doli keys !
My understanding will be:
- hypopygium is a male feature not existing in females ?
-The tricky couplet for me was (same for you John and Nini)
"Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" - diaphana and hoffmeisteri
"Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs in addition to setae" - magnicornis and setimana
I read it wrongly as if the mesonotum wasnt
entirely covered with hair it had to be magnicornis/setimana ...
What would be
the anterior part of mesonotum
Is it like "anterior of the suture" ?
BR
Leif K
Edited by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:08
Posted by johnes81 on 05-06-2018 17:41
#16
I like Igor's keys but this one is difficult to follow because of the wording. I tried to key it along with you to gain more experience. My original thoughts are as follows:
1. can't be magnicornis because the hairs aren't restricted to the anterior region.
2. must be diaphana.
3. can't be diaphana because the hairs are not entirely covering the mesonotum.
4. females with a hypopygium? i'm not an expert, so maybe.
5. if it isn't correct, then what is it?
6. start over and assume a hypopygium is present. I get to loewi.
7. loewi doesn't seem to be correct.
8. is it really diaphana and the hairs are just scattered beyond the anterior region?
9. maybe i should suggest diaphana.
10. i will just see if i can ask Grichanov. maybe he will answer me.
i really didn't know if the hairs are entirely covering the mesonotum or if the hairs are just beyond the anterior region. I am happy to know the correct answer now. I am also happy that you have an id.
very nice photos. :)
Posted by Igor Grichanov on 06-06-2018 08:43
#17
Doli males usually bear large genital capsule (hypopygium) with appendages directed down or even forward. Females have small, pointed, usually concealed oviscapt (ovipositor), always directed backward. See Gallery:
https://diptera.info/photogallery.php?album_id=14&rowstart=0
Most
Argyra species like other Dolies have hairs on anterior slope of mesonotum only (except for 1-2 median rows of acrostichal hairs between dorsocentral setae). Compare with the setation of
Argyra leucocephala on this picture:
Posted by johnes81 on 06-06-2018 11:23
#18
Thank you for taking time to post, Igor. I definitely appreciate and value this information. I am happy to have a better understanding of Dolicho. I am sorry that i misunderstood your keys for this genus. I really love your keys. I've never been able to sit down and correctly key a species at the first attempt. I was able to do this using your keys to
Dolichopus. The keys are magnificent. I obviously lack the experience with Agyra to understand the distribution of hairs correctly.
I have no luck finding females. I recently found a
Sciapus sp. but it is also a male. I haven't had a chance to key it yet but the point is that i always find males. I finally found a female cf Dolichopus sp a few days ago. I haven't had time to examine it but i will study it carefully in order to better my understanding of the females. I have not found Argyra yet, so i lack knowledge and experience with this genus.
I've attached a photo of the Sciapus sp. to show that i know what you mean about the male genitalia. I've also examined a
Dolichopus ungulatus male recently:
https://diptera.i...d_id=84958
Thank you for posting and I hope that you have a pleasant day.