Thread subject: Diptera.info :: Dolichopodidae: Argyra magnicornis/setimana => Argyra cf diaphana (female)

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:17
#1

Sweden, Degeberga 2018-06-04, 6-7 mm

Found dead indoors

Edited by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:09

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:18
#2

dorsal

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:18
#3

head

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 12:19
#4

face

Posted by Paul Beuk on 04-06-2018 12:53
#5

Argyra or Rhaphium, I think

Posted by John Carr on 04-06-2018 13:47
#6

In the Nearctic, Argyra can have hairs on the scape while Rhaphium never does. The same should be true in Europe.

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 15:22
#7

Thanks Paul and John !

Following Igor G´s key et runs to Argyra magnicornis/setimana. Is it possible to tell the difference in females ?

/Leif K

Posted by johnes81 on 04-06-2018 15:56
#8

very nice photos :)

I have a copy of Grichanov's keys and i end up at Argyra loewi.
i see a hypopygium. I'm not experienced with this genus or the keys to this genus but a hypopygium is present in my opinion.

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:43
#9

Thanks for your input John and Nini !

Maybe you are correct and this is a male ...

Do these images help to settle the sex ?

First lateral view.

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:44
#10

ventral view

Posted by skrylten on 04-06-2018 20:47
#11

if it is a male then it should depend on the hairs on mesonotum.

Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs => A. loewi
Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs => A. setima

Posted by johnes81 on 04-06-2018 22:16
#12

skrylten wrote:
Thanks for your input John and Nini !
Maybe you are correct and this is a male ...


I think that it is a female. However, how can you arrive at magnicornis when hairs on the mesonotum are not restricted to the anterior part? i see hairs scattered around the mesonotum. If this is magnicornis, then these keys are a bit misleading. I say that because hairs should not be found beyond the anterior area and 'covered' means there are absolutley no spaces without a hair. I have used Grichanov's keys for Dolichopus and i find the keys to be a delight. Thus, i think that magnicornis is not correct. I see a large structure at the tip of the abdomen. Is this not a hypopygium?

I diagree with both of the following entries"
"Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" - diaphana and hoffmeisteri
"Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs in addition to setae" - magnicornis and setimana

So if this isn't a match, then shouldn't we back up and start over?

I think that the problem is the following key:
"2. Males: hypopygium present...3
– Females: hypopygium absent...19"

I guess my logic is that if a female has a hypopygium, then follow the key to number 3. Perhaps that is not correct but i see hairs beyond the anterior part of the mesonotum and i cannot agree that the mesonotum is 'covered' with hairs.

Perhaps we can find an email address for Grichanov and ask him about it.

Posted by Igor Grichanov on 05-06-2018 09:12
#13

It is obviously female, keys to diaphana (Fabricius) and hoffmeisteri (Loew), but the latter is rare, being not known in Sweden.

Posted by johnes81 on 05-06-2018 11:42
#14

atleast we confirm it isn't magnicornis.

For diaphana, I will change my keys from "Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" to "Mesonotum with hairs beyond anterior region in addition to setae".

Posted by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:05
#15

Thanks Igor for the clarification and your Doli keys !

My understanding will be:
- hypopygium is a male feature not existing in females ?

-The tricky couplet for me was (same for you John and Nini)
"Mesonotum entirely covered with hairs in addition to setae" - diaphana and hoffmeisteri
"Only anterior part of mesonotum covered with hairs in addition to setae" - magnicornis and setimana

I read it wrongly as if the mesonotum wasnt entirely covered with hair it had to be magnicornis/setimana ...

What would be
the anterior part of mesonotum
Is it like "anterior of the suture" ?

BR

Leif K

Edited by skrylten on 05-06-2018 16:08

Posted by johnes81 on 05-06-2018 17:41
#16

I like Igor's keys but this one is difficult to follow because of the wording. I tried to key it along with you to gain more experience. My original thoughts are as follows:

1. can't be magnicornis because the hairs aren't restricted to the anterior region.
2. must be diaphana.
3. can't be diaphana because the hairs are not entirely covering the mesonotum.
4. females with a hypopygium? i'm not an expert, so maybe.
5. if it isn't correct, then what is it?
6. start over and assume a hypopygium is present. I get to loewi.
7. loewi doesn't seem to be correct.
8. is it really diaphana and the hairs are just scattered beyond the anterior region?
9. maybe i should suggest diaphana.
10. i will just see if i can ask Grichanov. maybe he will answer me.

i really didn't know if the hairs are entirely covering the mesonotum or if the hairs are just beyond the anterior region. I am happy to know the correct answer now. I am also happy that you have an id.

very nice photos. :)

Posted by Igor Grichanov on 06-06-2018 08:43
#17

Doli males usually bear large genital capsule (hypopygium) with appendages directed down or even forward. Females have small, pointed, usually concealed oviscapt (ovipositor), always directed backward. See Gallery:
https://diptera.info/photogallery.php?album_id=14&rowstart=0
Most Argyra species like other Dolies have hairs on anterior slope of mesonotum only (except for 1-2 median rows of acrostichal hairs between dorsocentral setae). Compare with the setation of Argyra leucocephala on this picture:

Posted by johnes81 on 06-06-2018 11:23
#18

Thank you for taking time to post, Igor. I definitely appreciate and value this information. I am happy to have a better understanding of Dolicho. I am sorry that i misunderstood your keys for this genus. I really love your keys. I've never been able to sit down and correctly key a species at the first attempt. I was able to do this using your keys to Dolichopus. The keys are magnificent. I obviously lack the experience with Agyra to understand the distribution of hairs correctly.

I have no luck finding females. I recently found a Sciapus sp. but it is also a male. I haven't had a chance to key it yet but the point is that i always find males. I finally found a female cf Dolichopus sp a few days ago. I haven't had time to examine it but i will study it carefully in order to better my understanding of the females. I have not found Argyra yet, so i lack knowledge and experience with this genus.

I've attached a photo of the Sciapus sp. to show that i know what you mean about the male genitalia. I've also examined a Dolichopus ungulatus male recently:
https://diptera.i...d_id=84958

Thank you for posting and I hope that you have a pleasant day.