Diptera.info - Discussion Forum: Tachinidae -> Panzeria / Ernestia rudis

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Tachinidae -> Panzeria / Ernestia rudis
maroo	#1 Posted on 03-08-2020 08:48
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	Found this, rather large Tachinidae in southern Sweden 2020 06 17 Is id possible? Martin maroo attached the following image: [292.69Kb] Edited by maroo on 04-08-2020 05:58


maroo	#2 Posted on 03-08-2020 08:49
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	. maroo attached the following image: [241.9Kb]


Zeegers	#3 Posted on 03-08-2020 10:18
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	Male Panzeria / Ernestia rudis. Theo


maroo	#4 Posted on 04-08-2020 05:56
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	Thank you Theo! /Martin


amaira	#5 Posted on 04-08-2020 07:32
Member Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 414 Joined: 13.08.06	A question. Same fly/individual but anorther photo. Why this difference between the antennas? The other Picture is from the Swedish "Artfakta" https://artfakta.se/artbestamning/taxon/panzeria-rudis-200231?fbclid=IwAR1EbLwjUdAyCC9iu1cjJdp_3RmXlld3QT2u_4EQfWruv6-ItEKS8IzBy5U amaira attached the following image: [224.31Kb]


Zeegers	#6 Posted on 04-08-2020 07:41
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	Interesting question. Rudis has a very rare lookalike P. vagans. Difference is easy on male genitalia, but otherwise difficult. I dismissed this option based on the thoracic pattern in the first pic. The second pic shows strong darkening on anterior part of scutellum, a feature suggesting vagans. So I need to look into this. * Can you tell whether hairs on eye are darker on upper half ? * Can you tell whether abdominal tergites have lateral discal bristles ? Thanks Theo


amaira	#7 Posted on 04-08-2020 08:15
Member Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 414 Joined: 13.08.06	Interesting. Thanks for your replay Theo. Sorry, I can't answer you, we have to wait for Martin.


amaira	#8 Posted on 04-08-2020 08:21
Member Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 414 Joined: 13.08.06	What about Panzeria puparum?


maroo	#9 Posted on 04-08-2020 10:45
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	Interresting discussion! I have to check my pinned animal once I get home from holiday, will try get some pics then of what you'd asked for Theo


maroo	#10 Posted on 24-08-2020 14:05
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	Hi again I have now looked again on my fly. Here are the answers to Theo's two qustions: I can't see any difference in the colour of the hair in the eyes, they all seems to have a brown-yellow tone. There are no discal bristels on the tergits. /Martin


Zeegers	#11 Posted on 24-08-2020 18:59
Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18518 Joined: 21.07.04	So, both are rudis ! So, I checked my collecting. The antenna in Panzeria rudis is surprisingly variable , Your second male is the macho type with dark antenna, only some brown at base of third segment, and borad third antennal segment. Your first is a feminine male, with lots of yellow, also on basal segments, and narrow third segment. Your two cases represent more or less both extremes, but many are intermediate. Of course, this is based on Central European material and I would need to study the genitalia to be very sure. (I found a cryptic new species in Russian Far East). But for now, it really is Panzeria rudis, both of them ! note that a similar situation, far more extreme, occurs in Phasia and Ectophasia. Theo


maroo	#12 Posted on 26-08-2020 21:31
Member Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 679 Joined: 27.10.14	Thank you for taking time to look in to this Theo! Always good to have an correct id on these difficult ones Martin


amaira	#13 Posted on 28-08-2020 17:35
Member Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 414 Joined: 13.08.06	Thanks from me too/ Anne-Marie

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