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Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Tachinidae -> Panzeria / Ernestia rudis
maroo
#1 Print Post
Posted on 03-08-2020 09:48
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Found this, rather large Tachinidae in southern Sweden
2020 06 17

Is id possible?

Martin
maroo attached the following image:


[292.69Kb]
Edited by maroo on 04-08-2020 06:58
 
maroo
#2 Print Post
Posted on 03-08-2020 09:49
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.
maroo attached the following image:


[241.9Kb]
 
Zeegers
#3 Print Post
Posted on 03-08-2020 11:18
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Location: Soest, NL
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Male Panzeria / Ernestia rudis.


Theo
 
maroo
#4 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 06:56
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Thank you Theo!

/Martin
 
amaira
#5 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 08:32
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A question. Same fly/individual but anorther photo.
Why this difference between the antennas?
The other Picture is from the Swedish "Artfakta"
https://artfakta.se/artbestamning/taxon/panzeria-rudis-200231?fbclid=IwAR1EbLwjUdAyCC9iu1cjJdp_3RmXlld3QT2u_4EQfWruv6-ItEKS8IzBy5U
amaira attached the following image:


[224.31Kb]
 
Zeegers
#6 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 08:41
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Location: Soest, NL
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Interesting question. Rudis has a very rare lookalike P. vagans.
Difference is easy on male genitalia, but otherwise difficult.
I dismissed this option based on the thoracic pattern in the first pic. The second pic shows strong darkening on anterior part of scutellum, a feature suggesting vagans.

So I need to look into this.
* Can you tell whether hairs on eye are darker on upper half ?
* Can you tell whether abdominal tergites have lateral discal bristles ?

Thanks

Theo
 
amaira
#7 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 09:15
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Interesting. Thanks for your replay Theo.
Sorry, I can't answer you, we have to wait for Martin.
 
amaira
#8 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 09:21
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What about Panzeria puparum?
 
maroo
#9 Print Post
Posted on 04-08-2020 11:45
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Interresting discussion!
I have to check my pinned animal once I get home from holiday, will try get some pics then of what you'd asked for Theo

 
maroo
#10 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2020 15:05
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Hi again
I have now looked again on my fly. Here are the answers to Theo's two qustions:
I can't see any difference in the colour of the hair in the eyes, they all seems to have a brown-yellow tone.
There are no discal bristels on the tergits.

/Martin
 
Zeegers
#11 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2020 19:59
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So, both are rudis !

So, I checked my collecting. The antenna in Panzeria rudis is surprisingly variable , Your second male is the macho type with dark antenna, only some brown at base of third segment, and borad third antennal segment. Your first is a feminine male, with lots of yellow, also on basal segments, and narrow third segment.

Your two cases represent more or less both extremes, but many are intermediate. Of course, this is based on Central European material and I would need to study the genitalia to be very sure. (I found a cryptic new species in Russian Far East).

But for now, it really is Panzeria rudis, both of them !

note that a similar situation, far more extreme, occurs in Phasia and Ectophasia.

Theo
 
maroo
#12 Print Post
Posted on 26-08-2020 22:31
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Thank you for taking time to look in to this Theo!

Always good to have an correct id on these difficult ones

Martin
 
amaira
#13 Print Post
Posted on 28-08-2020 18:35
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Thanks from me too/ Anne-Marie
 
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28.08.20 12:57
That woul be up to me, as an administrator. Smile

27.08.20 12:30
I want to move a thread to the Syphridae subforum - how can I do this?

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08.08.20 14:31
ah ok ! I didn't knew oops !

07.08.20 08:12
They are already in Poland !

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Today a Chrysomya albiceps found in North of France ! I was quite surprised !

02.08.20 10:10
Ok... lower case naming for images.. understood,Lothar

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I uploadad a jpg, but it is not visible in the thread...Lothar

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Have you checked the FAQ already?

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cannot upload photos, it says wrong name. can someone please explain the exact procedure and the does and donts?

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