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Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Muscidae: Phaonia incana ? => Helina evecta (male)
skrylten
#21 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 19:31
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Location: Sweden
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I found a, for me, new feature to separate them in this Chinese paper https://www.tandf...014.954019.

They talk about "two subgroups according to whether the centre of the scutellum
ventrally is with hairs or without hairs, namely the Helina annosa-subgroup and
the Helina evecta-subgroup."
 
Nikita Vikhrev
#22 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 20:39
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Location: Moscow, Russia
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I found no reliable differences, well may be I searched badly. Hennig found only minor differences using presently in Gregor et al. (2003) key. So did D'Assis Fonseca. So did Adrian Pont. So did several other Muscid experts. But Dr. Xue and his postgraduate student found 41 (!!!) new species. You believe it? Me - not. I think that it is shameful that Journal of Natural History pubishes such paper...
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
skrylten
#23 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 20:56
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Good to know for an amateur like me.
Thanks again for your inout Nikita !

/Leif K
 
johnes81
#24 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 21:24
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interesting conversation. I apologize for interrupting but i wanted to add support for Nikita.
I looked at the Chinese document and i have to say that my specimen does not have hairs beneath and in the center of the scutellum. I consider my specimen to be Helina evecta without doubts. image attached.

Best wishes,
John
johnes81 attached the following image:


[75.21Kb]
Edited by johnes81 on 22-08-2019 21:25
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
skrylten
#25 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 21:52
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No worries John.
I agree its an interesting discussion Smile

What about DNA analysis ?
Doesnt this paper https://cyberleni...027/viewer figure 2 indicate that they are separate species ?
 
johnes81
#26 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 22:51
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I am not a Biochemist and i use a third party for dna sequencing. I fully intend to enter this arena in the future. But my opinion regarding dna sequencing carries no weight.

However, i believe that this document indicates little or no difference between the two. I consider this to mean that annosa is an intraspecific variation but i could be wrong.

Perhaps a biochemist will weigh-in on the matter.
I do want to enter this field. I'd like to do my own dna sequencing because it is expensive to have a third party do it for me.

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
Nikita Vikhrev
#27 Print Post
Posted on 22-08-2019 23:54
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Once I sent to Jade Savage a Siberian specimen of Lispe uliginosa for this research. This is interesting work, but Jade and coauthors made very few conclusions (and it confirms that authors are careful (as they have to be)). The only strict conclusion is that Thricops spiniger is most probably a synonym of Th. septentrionalis. (Jade revised World fauna of Thricops, so she is a person whose point of view on this genus we can trust.) Also NA Phaonia luteva is probably differs from PA Ph. errans. Of course, it is very preliminary conclusions.
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
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