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Hydrotaea dentipes? = cyrtoneurina
johnes81	#1 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:25
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	male - 6mm - Berlin - late May 2018 I think that this specimen fits well with Hydrotaea dentipes but this is my first Hydrotaea sp. I believe that the 6mm size eliminates H. similis and its av on hind tibia. I see hairs on mid coxae, so i cannot eliminate Hydrotaea palaestrica with no experience. However, Hydrotaea dentipes seems to be the best option. no drawings of genitalia for comparison. a photo of the cerci/surstyli in dorsal view will be added last. Thank you for your time, John edit: i completely ignored the hairy eyes. i wear the dunce cap today johnes81 attached the following image: [69.31Kb] Edited by johnes81 on 20-06-2018 17:05 John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#2 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:26
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	lateral view johnes81 attached the following image: [112.34Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#3 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:26
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	eyes have small hairs johnes81 attached the following image: [50.24Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#4 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:26
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	head and frons johnes81 attached the following image: [74.63Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#5 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:27
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	arista johnes81 attached the following image: [37.61Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#6 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:27
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	palpi johnes81 attached the following image: [35.65Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#7 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:28
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	haltere johnes81 attached the following image: [42.93Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#8 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:28
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	modified foreleg (even the tibia seems modified) johnes81 attached the following image: [53.87Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#9 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:29
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	hind femur and tibia johnes81 attached the following image: [35.79Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#10 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:30
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	mid coxae are rather hairy johnes81 attached the following image: [48.01Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#11 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:30
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	mid leg johnes81 attached the following image: [97.9Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#12 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:30
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	wing fits the group johnes81 attached the following image: [57.79Kb] John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#13 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:31
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	cerci and surstyli dorsal view Edited by johnes81 on 07-04-2020 10:43 John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


Nikita Vikhrev	#14 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:43
Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9220 Joined: 24.05.05	John, you overlook that eyes are densely hairy! Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University


johnes81	#15 Posted on 20-06-2018 16:49
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	Hello Nikita, i agree: i TOTALLY overlooked it. Now that you mention it, i see how dense it really is. I have no idea what i am thinking. I wonder if i am used to Helina where small hairs are also bare. I am not making excuses for my stupidity here but i have migraines that bother me when the weather changes. I have a major headache today and i suppose it just didn't register. I will key it again, Sir. I apologize for the error. John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


johnes81	#16 Posted on 20-06-2018 17:03
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	Hello Nikita, Hydrotaea cyrtoneurina is much better than dentipes. I think that i will call it a day and rest. I truly appreciate you Nikita. I hope that i can help you in return someday. Just ask. Have a splendid day, John John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


Nikita Vikhrev	#17 Posted on 20-06-2018 17:25
Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9220 Joined: 24.05.05	Take it easy, John! (3 years ago I collected in Altai Mts series of Hydrotaea "sp. n." When I come back Moscow, I found that it is H. militaris with overlooked cloud on the wing Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University


johnes81	#18 Posted on 20-06-2018 18:49
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	I saw that cloud in the keys and i told my wife that i would probably overlook it. I think that dipterology can be extremely difficult at times and it is alot of data to process, thus we can easily overlook the most obvious details. I always tell people to respect the experts because they have a difficult job. Muscidae is such a large and diverse family. I struggle sometimes with Muscidae. People say Pollenia are difficult but i'd rather play with Pollenia than Muscidae on most days I am sometimes a perfectionist. I try too hard, then i get mad at myself when i make mistakes. I suppose i get this intensity level from playing sports in my youth. I used to lift weights and all of that macho man stuff. I got over it after my teens. I think that sometimes i still get temperamental. I mean no harm. Anyway, I hope that you have a Great Day, Nikita. Thank you for helping John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.


oceanlis2000	#19 Posted on 26-06-2018 13:20
Member Location: Wales, UK Posts: 570 Joined: 15.06.10	Hello To be sure Need to show that pre ac are present also a better view of tibia 3 Dr Elisabeth A. Harris @FloraConsUK


johnes81	#20 Posted on 27-06-2018 09:28
Member Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 1978 Joined: 15.10.16	Hello Dr Elisabeth A. Harris, we have enough photos. The specimen is H. cyrtoneurina. "to be sure" of any species, we use genitalia or dna and i have included genitalia. I forgot that i have Hennig and i missed the hairy eyes, hence, the need to post. sometimes i sense that you are trying to learn from other peoples photos. If this is the case, then you should just ask to see photos. The way you word things seems like you disrespect peoples opinion. I have no problem showing additional photos if you just want to learn from them. just ask I hope that you have a splendid day. Remember, just ask. All is good. also, the sockets are visible where pre acr are missing and the hind tibia matches the drawings of Gregor et al. Edited by johnes81 on 27-06-2018 09:29 John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.

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