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Diptera.info :: Family forums :: Asilidae Forum
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gold-haired robber fly -> Laphria/Choerades sp?
treebeard
#1 Print Post
Posted on 06-07-2014 15:20
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Location: Slovakia
Posts: 537
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Hi all,

can anybody help me to identify this hairy robber fly? It was patrolling around forest path in Banska Bystrica, Slovakia, 6 July 2014, 450 m.a.s.l. Unfortunatelly, I have only pictures form this angle.

Greetings

Matej
treebeard attached the following image:


[174.34Kb]
Edited by treebeard on 22-07-2014 08:56
 
ValerioW
#2 Print Post
Posted on 06-07-2014 18:33
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Choerades cf. fimbriata
 
treebeard
#3 Print Post
Posted on 06-07-2014 19:15
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Location: Slovakia
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Thank you very much, but,in my opinion, Choerades fimbriata is much less hairy. I saw it even in this place, several minutes after this one. It had almost naked femora, black-stipped abdomen, overall look was different.

Can be Choreades fimbriata so variable?

A (very bad) picture of Ch. fimbriata from the same place and time:
treebeard attached the following image:


[97.22Kb]
 
Quaedfliegh
#4 Print Post
Posted on 07-07-2014 01:59
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Wow..: ) I would say it is a Laphria species (because of the face and beard) but it doesnt fit any description i can find. I keys out to L aurea, but looks totally different. Although this looks quite similar: http://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/238117.jpg
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
libor
#5 Print Post
Posted on 07-07-2014 08:32
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Maybe Laphria vulpina, a questionable species near to L. flava?
See at: http://www.robberflies.info/keyger/htmle/lapvul.html
Libor
 
Quaedfliegh
#6 Print Post
Posted on 07-07-2014 22:21
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Thought of that one too, but hair of abdomen seems to be adpressed ie flat against the body. In the flava complex the hairs are standing out like a bumblebee. But maybe we can't see enough.
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
treebeard
#7 Print Post
Posted on 09-07-2014 16:19
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Location: Slovakia
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Reinoud, Libor, thank you very much. I have one more picture of abdomen, may it help?

Matej
treebeard attached the following image:


[138.93Kb]
 
ValerioW
#8 Print Post
Posted on 09-07-2014 16:58
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Wow! Fully hairy tergites. Anyways, with theese I can just reject my Choerades thought, and say Laphria sp as Reinoud said. I can exclude some species but, personally, have no sure ID in mind.
Edited by ValerioW on 09-07-2014 17:05
 
treebeard
#9 Print Post
Posted on 10-07-2014 08:03
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Location: Slovakia
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Thank you, I am starting to be affraid that my pictures are not sufficient for ID. Otherwise, I am pleased that I came accross a something extraordinary.
 
Quaedfliegh
#10 Print Post
Posted on 10-07-2014 23:13
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Don't worry too much, Asilidae can be impossible to do from a picture but experience and local knowledge can help a lot. This picture could be good enough (it is a good picture). I think you have a special creature on this one. Try to compare it with local collected animals if possible.
Edited by Quaedfliegh on 14-07-2014 18:34
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
Quaedfliegh
#11 Print Post
Posted on 11-07-2014 00:27
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Addendum: The creature keeps on bothering me, now i'm doubting my own conclusion that this is a Laphria sp.

The creature looks like a Choerades species with a Laphria head.
The shoulders seem basicly brown and not black ???
Laphria usually has long hairs on the back of the mesonotum.

Questions:

Does the creature have the shiny facial hair as in Choerades or not? (compare with 2nd picture)

I hope someone with a lot of experience about Lahpriinae helps me out of my misery..
Edited by Quaedfliegh on 21-07-2014 16:02
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
treebeard
#12 Print Post
Posted on 12-07-2014 19:07
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Location: Slovakia
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Answer: If I understand you correctly,it probably does not. Choreades have some shiny spot between eyes, shining from certain angles, this creature probably does not. Entire this creature was shining, facial hairs, as far as I can remember, were not remarkable. Its overall look was "hairy" and "gold".

Have a nice day,

Matej
Edited by treebeard on 12-07-2014 19:08
 
ValerioW
#13 Print Post
Posted on 12-07-2014 22:28
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No matter how thorax looks. Face hairs, above the hump, are Laphria's, and this is a keys' trait.
 
jaho
#14 Print Post
Posted on 21-07-2014 01:13
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Looks a lot as Laphria cf. vulpina male which makes it a really interesting encounter.
Jan
 
treebeard
#15 Print Post
Posted on 21-07-2014 07:32
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Jan, thank you very much

Matej
 
Quaedfliegh
#16 Print Post
Posted on 22-07-2014 01:12
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I'm not conviced at all : ) compare: http://www.robberflies.info/keyger/htmle/lapvul.html

With Laphria species from the flava group (including vulpina) hair on the abdomen should be erect which is not the case, hair is adpressed. Also the very long postsutural hair of Laphria is not present on the mesonotum of this one.

As i mentioned before, it looks like a a head of a Laphria species on a choerades body. (not just the mesonotum also the abdomen, hair is adpressed in opposition the erect hairs of both L. vulpina and L. flava. Besides that, the shiny hairs on the face are not always obvious in Choerades, depending on the direction the light comes from. I therefore would suggest another species of which i only have seen pictures of collected specimens. : Choerades cf castellanii. Description by Hradsky fits quite well (admittedly the head remains strange) compare: http://www.biolib.cz/en/image/id238096/

I still hope that someone like Dysmachus or Danny Wolff would react. It is quite possible we will never know.
Edited by Quaedfliegh on 22-07-2014 01:18
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
treebeard
#17 Print Post
Posted on 22-07-2014 08:55
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Location: Slovakia
Posts: 537
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Yes, you are apparently right. In the meantime I chcecked those scarce pictures of the L. vulpina and they do not match. My field impession was neither "Choerades", nor "Laphria". Of course, I know only few species of these genera.

I will change the title and wait :-)
Edited by treebeard on 22-07-2014 08:56
 
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23.09.21 15:29
All sorted.

16.09.21 22:24
Sorry put 5 new threads in Asilidae forum instead in Syrphidae forum, can pleas an admin move it to Syrph? THANKS, Norbert

09.09.21 07:48
https://www.jeugdb
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product/de-vliegen
families-met-drie-
voetkussentjes/

09.09.21 07:47
wing ventation is totally different

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Hi, what's the major difference between dolichopodidae and rhagionidae? Can someone help me? Thanks!

28.06.21 15:24
thx TO eklans

03.06.21 11:11
@Tony Irwin Thank you Tony! I've emailed you there Pfft

02.06.21 22:26
Rob - can you PM me with an e-mail address, and I'll send it over.

02.06.21 13:16
Hello chaps! Does anyone have a copy of: Revision of the willow catkin flies, genus Egle Robineau-Desvoidy (Diptera: Anthomyiidae), in Europe and neighbouring areas ?? I'd be ever so grateful! Rob

31.05.21 14:31
The part that got deleted is "longer, dark median stripe on thorax"

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