Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Anthomyiidae from Granada -> Delia ?
|
|
| Manuel Lopez |
Posted on 13-07-2012 19:21
|
 Member Location: Granada Posts: 2551 Joined: 03.09.11 |
Surely Delia, I think. Beas de Granada (C Granada, 1370 m.). Thanks ! Manuel Lopez attached the following image:  [124.78Kb] Edited by Manuel Lopez on 13-07-2012 19:41 |
|
|
|
| Manuel Lopez |
Posted on 13-07-2012 19:25
|
|
Member Location: Granada Posts: 2551 Joined: 03.09.11 |
another view
Manuel Lopez attached the following image:  [131.9Kb] |
|
|
|
| Manuel Lopez |
Posted on 13-07-2012 19:29
|
|
Member Location: Granada Posts: 2551 Joined: 03.09.11 |
and another
Manuel Lopez attached the following image:  [112.44Kb] |
|
|
|
| javanerkelens |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:31
|
 Member Location: Netherlands Posts: 2962 Joined: 18.10.07 |
Notopleuron seems haired, arista "long" pubescent, 3de stergite with long hairs and not good visible but it seems to have a pointed spur on t1........could be Delia flabellifera. Not sure with only photos of course. Maybe Ackland can give his opinion also.... |
|
|
|
| javanerkelens |
Posted on 13-07-2012 20:33
|
|
Member Location: Netherlands Posts: 2962 Joined: 18.10.07 |
Or Stephen of course (how could I forgot him... ) |
|
|
|
| Stephen R |
Posted on 13-07-2012 21:07
|
 Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
Hi Joke! With Michael's key I get to D. carduiformis. Can you rule it out? D. flabellifera seems to be a synonym of D. linearis (vide Fauna Eur.)- is that right? If so, shouldn't it have the notopleural depression bare? Oh carduiformis shouldn't have ad on t2 - back to the drawing board.
Edited by Stephen R on 13-07-2012 21:18 |
|
|
|
| javanerkelens |
Posted on 13-07-2012 21:48
|
|
Member Location: Netherlands Posts: 2962 Joined: 18.10.07 |
Indeed D. flabellifera = D. linearis It is a bit confusing in the keys (Ackland / Hennig), but I thought the long hairs on stergite 3 are more abundant on D. carduiformis. Also on this species the prealar seems shorter than npl seta and from what I know in D. linearis and D. carduiformis the same or longer, and in D. carduiformis the lower katepistarnal should be almost the same lenght as the upper one and on one photo it seems shorter ? D. linearis has some hairs in addition to the npl setae..... So...... Only based on the lenght and amount of the hairs on stergite 3 I am more thinking about D. linearis.......not strong, I have to admit  And probable it is not possible at all to give this fly a name for sure, but just trying and discus, keeps me sharp. Edited by javanerkelens on 13-07-2012 21:54 |
|
|
|
| Stephen R |
Posted on 13-07-2012 21:53
|
|
Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
Now I'm really confused! Looking closely at the images, what I thought were hairs on the notopleuron are indistinguishable from the jpeg artefacts. But I see D. linearis can have hairs there. Ackland refers to long costal spines before the break. Also, though we can't really see what's happening at st 3, I would have guessed that the longest hairs were at the distal end. I suspect that whatever we call it we would change our minds when we got the specimen I wrote this before I saw your last post. It's all good exercise! Edited by Stephen R on 13-07-2012 21:55 |
|
|
|
| javanerkelens |
Posted on 13-07-2012 21:56
|
|
Member Location: Netherlands Posts: 2962 Joined: 18.10.07 |
We just have to convince Manuel to collect those flies!! |
|
|
|
| Manuel Lopez |
Posted on 13-07-2012 21:59
|
|
Member Location: Granada Posts: 2551 Joined: 03.09.11 |
I carefully read your interesting and learned opinions and... to add a little more discussion and confusion (I hope that not), here it's another picture. Thanks.
Manuel Lopez attached the following image:  [176.82Kb] Edited by Manuel Lopez on 13-07-2012 22:04 |
|
|
|
| Michael Ackland |
Posted on 14-07-2012 09:59
|
|
Member Location: Dorset UK Posts: 680 Joined: 23.02.08 |
Firstly it is not Delia linearis as the setae on sternite 3 are different i that species, and also mid tibia has a longer ad-seta. It is not carduiformis as the sternite 3 setae are longer and directed posteriorly and not projecting but closer to abdomen. I can't see any hairs on notopleuron as well. My keys are only for British species. There are many extra species in Europe, including some undescribed species. The high altitude of the mountains around Granada may well be home to some of these. So I can't make any suggestions about this fly. I am not in the business of guessing the ID of anthomyiids from photos, because many of the characters needed for accurate ID are not available. Lots of small details which will help to identify this family are only available with a specimen under the microscope, such as the setosity of vein C ventrally, exact details of the sternites and their setae for this group of Delia, presence of ad-setae on mid tibia (rarely visible in photos due to the direction of the camera). Ideally a dissection of the male genitalia will afford an accurate identification, as practically every species is different. So if you really want to know what species this is, you must collect specimens. I would also add that there is no value to having a name attached to a photo unless you have also collected and identified a specimen. One cannot use it for recording a record from a locality, and one cannot describe it as a new species. I hope that diptera.info will encourage more people to not only go to these wonderful localities and photograph flies, but also to take up collecting them and getting them identified. There is little material in most museums from localities such as the Sierra Nevada, as hardly any specialists have collected there. |
|
|
|
| Manuel Lopez |
Posted on 14-07-2012 15:51
|
|
Member Location: Granada Posts: 2551 Joined: 03.09.11 |
Thanks for the honesty and eloquence of your words. It's very important to speak clearly. Time will have the last word on my involvement in the world of the Diptera. Today I don't know.
Manuel |
|
|
|
| Jump to Forum: |
but don't see the image in the post.