Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 vomitoria
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| Cor Zonneveld |
Posted on 01-11-2006 20:36
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 Member Location: Amstelveen, the Netherlands Posts: 840 Joined: 14.10.06 |
I expect all these to be Calliphora vomitoria, but I'm looking for confirmation from experts! Location: Amstelveen, the Netherlands. Suburban area, all three on Ivy. Date: 8 October 2006. Cor Zonneveld attached the following image:  [125.6Kb] Edited by Cor Zonneveld on 01-11-2006 20:45 Thanks for your attention Cor Zonneveld |
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| Cor Zonneveld |
Posted on 01-11-2006 20:39
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Member Location: Amstelveen, the Netherlands Posts: 840 Joined: 14.10.06 |
and this one,
Cor Zonneveld attached the following image:  [139.3Kb] Thanks for your attention Cor Zonneveld |
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| Cor Zonneveld |
Posted on 01-11-2006 20:41
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Member Location: Amstelveen, the Netherlands Posts: 840 Joined: 14.10.06 |
and still another one.
Cor Zonneveld attached the following image:  [126.05Kb] Thanks for your attention Cor Zonneveld |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 01-11-2006 21:19
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18546 Joined: 21.07.04 |
The anterior spiracle is clearly yellow, which indicates C. vicina. In vomitoria, the beard itself is red. In vicina, the beard is blackish, however, the gena below the beard in reddish in ground-colour. Which is often misinterpretered as a reddish beard. So, in my mind this should be C. vicina, but let's wait for Tony. Theo |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 02-11-2006 00:23
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 Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7193 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Yes, I'd say they're all C. vicina. The best on-line photo I could find of vomitoria is at http://www.nku.ed...itoria.htm Note the red beard on a dark face. Hope this helps! Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Cor Zonneveld |
Posted on 02-11-2006 09:55
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Member Location: Amstelveen, the Netherlands Posts: 840 Joined: 14.10.06 |
OK, but this means that the photograph I submitted for the Gallery too might be vicina! Can this be seen from a dorsal shot? (see recently submitted photographs), or are they in effect indistinguishable from this angle? Thanks all for your input! Thanks for your attention Cor Zonneveld |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 10:28
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
It is not as easy task to make a lateral photo of Calliphora with good visible cheek. This time in Sochi I was very much disappointed that my only photo of C. vomitoria from desirable point is blur But now I decided to submit it just for information what has to be visible (black cheek with red beard). Nikita Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [106.17Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Andre Jas |
Posted on 02-11-2006 11:24
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 Member Location: Georgsdorf, Germany Posts: 485 Joined: 04.10.04 |
Cheers
Andre Jas attached the following image:  [55.33Kb] Andr? Jas |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 11:39
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [109.08Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 02-11-2006 12:00
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 Member Location: Debrecen, Hungary Posts: 5550 Joined: 02.03.05 |
In Eastern Europe (From Eastern Hungary eastwards) the situation is more complicated than just separating vicina from vomitoria. A third species, C. uralensis is also common, and I wonder how it can be safely told apart from vicina and uralensis (this letter species should have blackish beard), when I struggle to separate these two species already. More and more I start to think that I have not even observed C. vomitoria so far, just vicina and uralensis. I shall post a few images later. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 12:35
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
and Calliphora loewi ...
Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [68.34Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 02-11-2006 22:00
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7193 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Cor - The gallery photo is a bit suspect. I think it is probably vicina - the basicosta is partly pale and the lower calypter has a broad white border). It's certainly not a good picture of vomitoria - (shows none of the key characters) Nikita - your Sochi vomitoria appears to be vomitoria OK, but note the large brush of red hairs at the end of the abdomen. I don't think these are really red - I think they are reflecting the sun, like the bristles on the back of the fore-tibia, the aristal hairs and the fronto-orbitals. So is the beard really red? At least the basicosta and genae ground colour is clearly black, so it can't be vicina Andre's pictures show the hair colour of vicina really well (we can tell they are vicina from that really bright orange anterior spiracle). There are alot of pale hairs extending from the occiput forward on to the lower genae, but the gena itself is pale with dark hairs. Nikita's lowewi photo is helpful, showing the long antenna of the female and the white spot on the parafacial. But I give up on the substrate ... rabbit .... mouse....mink.. ??? Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 23:08
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Hi Tony. 1. Gallery photo of C. vomitoria - I think so - any doubts regard to credit of more common species - C. vicina. 2. My C. vomitoria was collected. I hoped that it is C. loewi, but alas, beard is red. 3. C. loewi was ID by Andrey Ozerov from my photo from last year. This year I haven't find dead mouse
Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [113.65Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 23:10
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
P.S. Mouse - Apodemus sylvaticus.
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 02-11-2006 23:27
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
If Forum decide that it is C. loewi, I will be glad to put image of not as common fly to Gallery.
Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [158.29Kb] Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 03-11-2006 00:18
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7193 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Nikita - I think this is loewi. It would be good to have it in the gallery
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 03-11-2006 00:23
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Thank you Tony. Your and Andrey Ozerov confirmations are heavy enought to send image  Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| pierred |
Posted on 11-11-2006 10:13
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 Member Location: Paris (France) Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Hello, Is this also C. loewi? For me, this is whether C. vicina nor C. vomitoria. According to Fauna europaea, we should have only those three in France. pierred attached the following image:  [51.06Kb] Edited by pierred on 12-11-2006 06:16 Pierre Duhem |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 11-11-2006 10:27
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9229 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Hi Pierre. Cheeks bicolor - vicina and uralensis; cheeks black - vomitoria and loewi. Yours has black/yellow cheek - C. vicina. Nikita Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Robert Nash |
Posted on 11-11-2006 15:57
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Member Location: Ulster Museum, Belfast, Ireland Posts: 288 Joined: 11.11.05 |
Can we agree a final vote on all these pics? Robert |
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