Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Huge bombyliid
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| digitalg |
Posted on 15-08-2006 16:15
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 51 Joined: 31.07.06 |
Let's see if I can bring something interesting here  I had been for 15 minutes back and forth trying to take a picture at this fly. It's maybe the biggest fly I've ever seen, at the very least 30mm long and bulky as you can see. Everytime I got close it would fire away in a loud buzz ... and then it just landed on my trousers!! I took the shot and it understood the mistake and went buzzing away for good! I've never seen a fly like this before and I've never seen another like it after. The wing venation, legs and head, make me think it is Bombyllidae. Bombyllids mimic Bombus species but this one was instead a fairly good mimic of Xylocopa violacea 2003/08/16 - Center of Portugal, margin of a small river. digitalg attached the following image:  [72.59Kb] Armando Frazão http://bugs.digit... |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2006 16:33
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Cononedys sp. perhaps? |
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| Dmitry Gavryushin |
Posted on 15-08-2006 18:33
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 Member Location: Moscow region, Russia Posts: 3308 Joined: 17.10.05 |
A really impressive fly! I've found the only picture, also from Portugal: http://flickr.com...167809941/. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2006 19:06
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Black wrote: A really impressive fly! I've found the only picture, also from Portugal: http://flickr.com...167809941/. That photo is mine.  |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 15-08-2006 19:53
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 Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7236 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Mmm.. While the venation is similar(there are some differences), the only Cononedys that I know of in Portugal or Spain is Cononedys scutellata which is 6 to 8mm, so not the answer here. 
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 15-08-2006 21:22
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Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Tony Irwin wrote: Mmm.. While the venation is similar(there are some differences), the only Cononedys that I know of in Portugal or Spain is Cononedys scutellata which is 6 to 8mm, so not the answer here. Yes... perhaps you have reason. Really this fly is not so big as Armando told about bombyliid. But the venation is almost similar. Which other species are similar to Cononedys? |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 15-08-2006 23:24
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7236 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Looking through Seguy's Faune de France volume, I'd say that this fly is likely to be in the Anthracinae, but there's nothing in France that is this big. We'll have to wait for someone with better literature or a good Portugese or Spanish collection to help with this ID. The name Arabia S?nchez Terr?n was mentioned on the Fauna Iberica site as a compiler for Bombyliidae. I believe he can be contacted at the Natural Science Museum in Madrid. Edited by Tony Irwin on 15-08-2006 23:48 Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| digitalg |
Posted on 16-08-2006 09:43
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 51 Joined: 31.07.06 |
Tony Irwin wrote: Mmm.. While the venation is similar(there are some differences), the only Cononedys that I know of in Portugal or Spain is Cononedys scutellata which is 6 to 8mm, so not the answer here. Definitely not!  This is much bigger, much noisier!Before looking into the photo itself I would not even put the fly in Bombyliidae. No hairs and I could not (I still don't) see the proboscis. But if we were to shave a B. major it would not be so different, only a proportionally smaller head here. About Fauna Iberica, I'm just a hobbyist on these matters and don't have such contacts. Do you supose there's a web contact or email that would be answered to? Assuming it would be interesting enough. And unfortunately this was a one time event, and I do go to that same place everytime I travel there ... at my parent's. Edited by digitalg on 16-08-2006 09:45 Armando Frazão http://bugs.digit... |
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| David Gibbs |
Posted on 16-08-2006 11:18
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 Member Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 833 Joined: 17.06.06 |
looks to me rather like Satyramoeba hetrusca (Fab.), fresh specimens have white lateral spots on abdomen but these could easily be overlooked, did you see these? it is certainly not Cononedys. |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 17-08-2006 20:46
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Member Location: Norwich, England Posts: 7236 Joined: 19.11.04 |
Comparing the recent photo from Sarah - see http://www.dipter...post_12781, I feel that David is right. Certainly Sarah's fly and this one look to be the same species - in fact the white patches on the abdomen are visible. The difference in colour is explained by this fly being more worn and sun-bleached. I think Armando's "30 mm long" refers to the head to wing tip, rather than head to abdomen. (Unless Portugese Satyramoeba are bigger than the rest! ) Fauna Europaea does not list Portugal for this species, but that may be an oversight, or it could be a new record.
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| digitalg |
Posted on 18-08-2006 10:28
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 51 Joined: 31.07.06 |
huummm ... I have my doubts ... the behaviour description of Sarah fits completly. But this one I saw looks like less hairy and with a proportionally smaller head. I don't recall seeing white spots, at the very least they were not so conspicous, but then again, when I took the shot was the only time I did have a close look and with it on my clothes I was not able to look around or above! About the size, this one was definitly bigger than 17mm. For instance, when comparing it to B. major this one was really much bigger. Maybe when I estimated 30mm I was mislead by the wing span, but I still would say significantly longer than 17mm. As a relative measure, when I first spotted it flying I thought it was the Xylocopa violacea (they are common there) and not the mimic, it is pretty much the same size. I could not find any visual references or description out of diptera.info I think I might try to contact Dr. Arabia S?nchez Terr?n after all ... maybe she'll even be interested in joining diptera.info
Armando Frazão http://bugs.digit... |
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| digitalg |
Posted on 20-08-2006 12:00
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Member Location: Portugal Posts: 51 Joined: 31.07.06 |
This is almost a repetition of what I just wrote on the other thread mentioned here Well, we may really be looking at the same fly. Yesterday I went for a walk and could take a good look at some Xylocopa violacea, I believe these bombyliids mimic them. Their size is my only real measure of the size of the fly I photographed, and the X. violacea I've seen average a little below 25mm long. I guess we are getting into a meeting point and I'll be naming mine also S. hetrusca I took this shot more than 3 years ago and was estimating by memory, but I really must try to be more objective when evaluating sizes
Armando Frazão http://bugs.digit... |
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