Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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 Bibio anglicus and unknown Bibo sp.
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 05-05-2008 23:39
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 Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
Hi flyforum, Yesterday evening I collect Bibio species from Urtica-leaves. I found a lot of bibio's, Beris- and Doliphus sp. dead on leaves.. This is naturally I think? I think I found three kind of bibio sp. Bibo Johannis Bibio Anglicus (6 males!) and some other bibio? (B. hortulanus male?) Now I like to know what kind of bibio sp. this is?; the 1st tarsus is elongated but not as thin and long as B. Anglicus? The tarsus seems to be a bit redish/braun? This species is obviously bigger than the Bibio Anglicus sp. I found.. Both species have black hair on thorax and other parts. Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [94.45Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 06-05-2008 07:31 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 05-05-2008 23:43
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
I bibio unknown:
Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [112.57Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 05-05-2008 23:48 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 05-05-2008 23:44
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
1c) leg III, 1st tarsus is not so elongated as B. Anglicus
Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [95.54Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 05-05-2008 23:47 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 05-05-2008 23:48
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
2a) Bibio Anglicus see the braunish stigma! and the elongated 1st tarsus of III Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [94.87Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 05-05-2008 23:52 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 05-05-2008 23:53
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
2
Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [88.27Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 05-05-2008 23:53 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 06-05-2008 17:05
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19026 Joined: 21.07.04 |
The first one simply is B. marci. Don't you think ? Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 06-05-2008 18:34
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 Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7703 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Can "2a) Bibio Anglicus" be Bibio leucopterus? The inner tiabial spur is almost equal in length to the outer spur; the wings are very milky; and the pterostigma was brown/faint. |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 06-05-2008 21:39
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
hi Theo and Chris, Yes (clumsy smiley), the first one is B. marci..  (let's keep things simple)And Crhis, good point! I don't know this species, looking at the key I think you are right! I have to look at the other 'Bibio Anglicus' males, which I found before. Perhabs there are more B. leucopterus between them? Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 06-05-2008 21:49 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 06-05-2008 22:00
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7703 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Well, I think magnolia definitely has female Bibio anglicus in her photos and *maybe* your have some males but we have to take each photo at its merits and not jump to conclusions. Bibio spp. are not really difficult to identify but you have to be careful because they do look similar and they have short flight periods and overlapping distributions. So many species might fly at the same place in the same 2 weeks, in my experience. You really do have to catch plenty and key them ... but the good news is that keying them is fairly easy. In the UK we have Freeman & Lane (1985), which is pretty good.  |
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| Robert Heemskerk |
Posted on 06-05-2008 22:24
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Member Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 2082 Joined: 17.10.05 |
Yes, these female are B. anglicus. I meant the B. 'anglicus' I found before, just checking if these are not Bibio leucopterus. You are sure the Bibio, showed under 2 are Bibio leucopterus? are you? You say 'The inner tiabial spur is almost equal in length to the outer spur', are these the red spines on femur III? What is the status of B. leucopterus in the Netherlands Theo?; 1) common 2) quite common 3) rare 4) very rare I'll show you just another picture of the two species, you can see the difference in size! left: B. cf marci right: B. cf leucopterus Robert Heemskerk attached the following image:  [115.47Kb] Edited by Robert Heemskerk on 06-05-2008 23:28 Greeting, Robert Heemskerk ---- WWW: http://robertheem...ndedag.htm --- |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 07-05-2008 17:56
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19026 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Chris is right on leucopterus, I had the wing venation wrong in my memory Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 07-05-2008 18:14
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7703 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Robert Heemskerk wrote: You are sure the Bibio, showed under 2 are Bibio leucopterus? are you? You say 'The inner tiabial spur is almost equal in length to the outer spur', are these the red spines on femur III? In the "2a" photo the feature is quite easy to see on the right front/fore leg. Nearly all Bibio spp. have a swollen fore tibia with a large spine on the outer tip and a smaller inner spine. But on this individual you can see the fore-tibia ends with 2 spines of roughly equal length. The milky wings and slightly faded pterostigma also back up the identification I'll show you just another picture of the two species, you can see the difference in size! left: B. cf marci right: B. cf leucopterus In this photo I can't confirm the B.leucopterus because the fore tibia isn't visible on the second specimen. But the first specimen shows a male large enough to be B.marci Hope that helps. Edited by ChrisR on 07-05-2008 18:14 |
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| magnolia |
Posted on 08-05-2008 23:13
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Member Location: Rivermouth of Gelderse IJssel, Netherlands Posts: 12 Joined: 24.04.08 |
Well, I think magnolia definitely has female Bibio anglicus in her photos Eh, Chris, it must be in HIS photos |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 09-05-2008 09:35
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19403 Joined: 11.05.04 |
LoL
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 09-05-2008 09:37
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7703 Joined: 12.07.04 |
magnolia wrote: Well, I think magnolia definitely has female Bibio anglicus in her photos Eh, Chris, it must be in HIS photos Oops  (blush)  |
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