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 Goniini
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:44
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Hello, I have two specimens in my collection from Hungary what was formerly identified as Pseudogonia rufifrons female. Those were caught in the middle of June. You can see the topic of those specimens here: https://diptera.info/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=110279 Now, I caught an other Goniini in Hungary. But the problem is, that about keys this is Pseudogonia rufifrons as well. Abdominal hairs prone, head orange, 3rd antennal segment 1,5-2 times as long as the second. Abdomen clearly dusted. I thought Gonia atra as well, but in that species, bristles on r4+5 reach at least the middle of that vein, and in my specimen clearly not. So I compared the two “Pseudogonia rufifrons” and I think that it is just impossible that they belong to the same species! The specimen what was caught in June is somewhere between 13 and 14 mm, and the specimen from September is much smaller. Maybe, this could be because of different genders, but both specimens are females I think. Besides this, the bigger specimen has goldish dusting the smaller has whitish, bluish. The bristles of the parafrontalia are totally different in the two specimens as well. The head is almost completely orange in the smaller specimen, but in the bigger the frontal stripe is the only orange thing, head is rather yellowish. In the big one, 3rd antennal segment at least 4 times as long as 2nd (and that is a female!) and in this specimen 3rd antennal segment 1,5-2 times as long as the second. The hungarian key says that P. rufifrons flies at VIII-X. I thought that the bigger one has to be the real Pseudogonia rufifrons, but once I looked the collection of the Hungarian National Museum and those are much smaller, but I’m not sure if they are identified correctly. (More pictures of the big could be seen here: https://diptera.info/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=110279) and in this post there are comparisons and pictures of the smaller one. What do you think? Which one is the real Pseudogonia rufifrons?And then, what is the other? varganimrod attached the following image:  [76.67Kb] Edited by varganimrod on 24-09-2023 13:51 |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:47
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [89.08Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:47
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [79.86Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:48
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [72.5Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:48
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [85.8Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:48
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [60.79Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:49
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [65.08Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:49
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [60.63Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:49
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [50.75Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 13:50
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 24-09-2023 17:40
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18787 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I am sorry, I get lost in your numbers. But the small one looks OK for Pseudogonia, the big one looks like it could be a Spallanzania (?). If you can make a lateral shot of the head of the big one, that would help. Theo |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 18:17
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Thank you! Spallanzania’s 3rd antennal segment at most 2 times as lomg as the 2nd about my key. And in this specimen, 3rd antennal segment at least 4 times as long as the second. This is my only problem with Spallanzania.
varganimrod attached the following image:  [58.45Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 18:17
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [47.67Kb] |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 18:17
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
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varganimrod attached the following image:  [68.82Kb] |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 24-09-2023 20:34
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18787 Joined: 21.07.04 |
I agree both are Pseudogonia and both key out to rufifrons. This species is very variable, in my experience. The big one is a male, the small one a female. I think you are looking at two extremes of the same species. Theo |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 24-09-2023 22:58
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Thank you! But I have never seen as big variability in Tachinidae. Isn’t it possible, that there are two species under the Pseudogonia rufifrons and some molecular examination would show that? |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 25-09-2023 08:13
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 18787 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Of course, DNA analysis might be useful, and then again, it might not (see the Gymnosomsa work). So give it a try Theo |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 25-09-2023 09:25
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Member Location: Posts: 803 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Thank you, Theo! There aren’t many possibilities in Hungary, but I will try to do it. |
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