Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
 bristly enough for a tachinid?
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| Sundew |
Posted on 08-01-2008 23:58
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 Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3939 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Hello, I guess this checkered grey fly is not a sarcophagid but rather a tachinid. However, I long for experts' opinion! Photos taken on the Baltic Island of Usedom in August. Thanks, Sundew Sundew attached the following image:  [179.34Kb] |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 08-01-2008 23:59
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3939 Joined: 28.07.07 |
More pics.
Sundew attached the following image:  [186.47Kb] |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-01-2008 23:59
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 Member Location: Viseu - PORTUGAL Posts: 9296 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Tachinidae. |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 09-01-2008 09:34
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19261 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Always nice to have several pictures from several angles. Some Tachinid are unmistakable laterally, but unrecognizable from aboven, for others it's vice versa. This is the female of Nemorilla floralis. It's difficult to explain why. The head profile is very typical, once you know this guys and girls (I know, that's not much help). Of course I can explain the formal features, but those are invisible in the pictures. Nevertheless: Nemorilla floralis it is. Theo |
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| Philippe moniotte |
Posted on 09-01-2008 11:47
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 Member Location: Heron, Belgium Posts: 865 Joined: 14.10.05 |
Could it be that this one is the same ? Or did I miss the point entirely Sorry for the so-so picture... H?ron, Begium June 16 2006 TIA Philippe Philippe moniotte attached the following image:  [122.83Kb] |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 09-01-2008 13:25
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 Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Definitely not the same - Nemorilla floralis has the 3 bristles on the humeral callus arranged into a roughly equilateral forward-pointing triangle - see the first photo (above).  |
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| Philippe moniotte |
Posted on 09-01-2008 14:55
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Member Location: Heron, Belgium Posts: 865 Joined: 14.10.05 |
mmmh, Chris, are you pulling my leg, or do I need to buy myself a new screen ?... |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 09-01-2008 15:06
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Well, I can see them  In the top group the photos in the top left and bottom right show the grey humeral callus ("shoulders", for want of a better word) with 3 black bristles arranged in a triangle. In the next pair of photos the photo on the left shows it too Maybe I have good eyes - or a good imagination! |
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| Philippe moniotte |
Posted on 09-01-2008 15:27
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Member Location: Heron, Belgium Posts: 865 Joined: 14.10.05 |
Oh well, I'll gladly take your word for it, but I don't think I could spot them to save my life.... |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 09-01-2008 17:07
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19261 Joined: 21.07.04 |
Let's return to the beginning. Is it a Tachinid ? I strongly doubt it. My guess is a female Musca and you got misled by the curve in vein M. Hopefully, some Muscidae-guy or -girl can comment on this suggestion. Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 09-01-2008 20:44
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
I agree the second fly doesn't look like a tachinid to me - more like a muscid or sarcophagid. Sorry for any confusion, my remarks were all about the N.floralis above. |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 09-01-2008 22:05
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3939 Joined: 28.07.07 |
What an interesting discussion! Philippe, you should dedicate your lovely fly a thread of its own to attract more experts. Once again I played the game "Find out the 10 small differences", which is not so easy with these grey and black animals. However, my fly has hairy eyes, and there are also dense blonde hairs on the back of the head - I think your fly lacks them or they are much more inconspicuous. And my fly has very prominent antennae that are protruding in every perspective. Yours should show them as well, but it does not. Then, my fly has a white face below the antennae, the face of yours is dark. The broad dark median stripe is not seen on your fly's thorax. And the wing venation is also not absolutely congruent... Find out the remaining differences yourself and win the prize! Many thanks to all participants of the discussion! Sundew |
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| Philippe moniotte |
Posted on 10-01-2008 10:15
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Member Location: Heron, Belgium Posts: 865 Joined: 14.10.05 |
Thanks Sundew, great analysis> I think this instance is typically showing the main difficulty for beginners like me, i.e. to be able to decide what details are important for ID and which are not. That's what only comes with much experience and knowledge, of course... Now the funny part of this story, as far as I am concerned, is that I now realize I posted the wrong picture : when I first saw this thread, I knew I had a similar-looking fly somewhere in my "unidentified" files. I found the one I posted, and, as you point out , there was some superficiel resemblance, but many differences too. This morning, I found that the picture I remembered was actually this one (attached) . Now I hope it is at least a Tachinid, this time ? And I feel it is much closer to your pics too... Cheers Philippe Philippe moniotte attached the following image:  [85.29Kb] |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 10-01-2008 12:10
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3939 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Dear Philippe, I am a beginner, too, and I started with a deeper look on insects only last summer, so you should have quite a head start! It is always a matter of luck to photograph the deciding character, therefore, to be on the safe side, I try to take several pics before the annoyed animal lifts... To me, your second photo shows a fly of the same species as mine. Even Theo and Chris should agree. Cordially, Sundew |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 10-01-2008 12:52
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Member Location: Soest, NL Posts: 19261 Joined: 21.07.04 |
We do !! (don't we, Chris ?) Theo |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 10-01-2008 14:00
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Super Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7706 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Yes, I think we are in total agreement The vittae and humeral callus bristles are all much better this time |
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| Philippe moniotte |
Posted on 10-01-2008 14:35
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Member Location: Heron, Belgium Posts: 865 Joined: 14.10.05 |
Thanks all! It seems my visual memory is more accurate than my direct observation ... strange indeed, but there you are! Philippe |
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