Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Other insects, spiders, etc.
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 panorpa communis?
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| Makro Freak |
Posted on 20-12-2007 05:07
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 Member Location: Munich, Germany Posts: 179 Joined: 22.05.07 |
loc. munich germany, forrest hi, is this panorpa communis ? rick Makro Freak attached the following image:  [115.06Kb] Edited by Makro Freak on 20-12-2007 05:08 |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 20-12-2007 14:21
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 Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Difficult to say, but I don't think so. In the UK we have 3 species (cognata, communis & germanica) and in male communis the 2 filaments on the genitalia are curved and converge at the tips. In germanica they diverge and are swollen at the tip - while on cognata they diverge and are tapered at the tips. So, if I was to choose between the 3 UK species then I would say it is most likely to be Panorpa cognata - but you might have other species in your location  |
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| Andre |
Posted on 20-12-2007 20:15
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 Member Location: Tilburg, the Netherlands Posts: 2111 Joined: 18.07.04 |
No, it's defenitely not cognata. For cognata the dark bands on the wings are way too strong. This one belongs to the vulgaris/communis-twins... Looking at the first spot on the wing, seen from the basis, being reduced between the two longitudinal veins (cubitus resp. media), I suggest it is communis. Also the other dark bands look, in average!, less strongly developped than in vulgaris. Also the wings tend to look more slender.. All these characters are very variable I must add at once, but communis is the best candidate for this specimen, based on a picture. |
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| Iolaire |
Posted on 21-12-2007 12:06
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 Member Location: Langedijk, Netherlands Posts: 192 Joined: 17.08.07 |
I agree it's not cognata. Although cognata has variations in the bands on the wings as well. I think it's best to name this "Panorpa sp." just because it's not possible to ID the species based on this picture. P. communis is likely, I admit, but surely not 100%. Too little details, too many variations... 
Best regards, Iolaire |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 21-12-2007 13:51
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Administrator Location: Reading, England Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Yes, in the British species there are trends with wing pattern but I have never relied on them for identifications. The male genital capsule is always the best way to go. I have put this photo through PhotoShop and I believe it is just very under-exposed - giving the dark markings too much prominence. With a little adjustment of the levels it is possible to see that the wing markings are probably not so dark in reality and the filaments on the genital capsule definitely do not converge at the tips - and might even be swollen, suggesting germanica. With the original photo it might be possible to do more though |
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| Andre |
Posted on 23-12-2007 15:33
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Member Location: Tilburg, the Netherlands Posts: 2111 Joined: 18.07.04 |
This defenitely is not germanica. No question about it. Not only based on the genitalia, also on the wingpattern, yes. Photoshop, underexposure or not, this also defenitely is not cognata, also based on the vissible parts of the genitalia and, yes, clearly by the wingpattern. I stick to my former conclusion. |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 26-01-2008 10:04
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 Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Hi, Would any of you knowledgeable people be interested in looking at my Mecopterans for me, I have 8 tubes of probably panorpa species from my biodiversity study of Lake Kerkini, Greece. Or does anybody know anybody who would be interested to see this material???????  |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 26-01-2008 10:23
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 Super Administrator Location: Netherlands Posts: 19363 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Try Wim Hogenes at the Zoological Museum of Amsterdam: hogenes at science.uva.nl
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Gordon |
Posted on 27-01-2008 10:20
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Member Location: Lake Kerkini, Greece Posts: 1099 Joined: 02.01.08 |
Thanks Paul, I will send him an email now. |
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