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View Thread :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
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Tachinidae? --> Sarcophagidae: Miltogramma cf. punctata
Frank Hornig
#1 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2021 11:32

Location: Northern Germany
Posts: 121
Joined: 22.05.21

I think it should be a member of Tachinidae but I found nothing that fits.
Frankenau, Hessen, Germany, 05.08.2021.
Frank Hornig attached the following image:

Edited by Frank Hornig on 24-08-2021 21:38
#2 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2021 11:52

Location: Franconia, Germany
Posts: 1617
Joined: 11.11.18

Hallo Frank, it's one of Sarcophagidae: Miltogramma cf. punctatum.
Edited by eklans on 24-08-2021 18:32
Greetings, Eric
Frank Hornig
#3 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2021 12:13

Location: Northern Germany
Posts: 121
Joined: 22.05.21

Well, that's the explanation why I didn't found anything. Smile

Thank you Eric!

Edited by Frank Hornig on 24-08-2021 12:14
#4 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2021 16:13

Location: Soest, NL
Posts: 16468
Joined: 21.07.04

- um, please (- gramma really is neutrum)

#5 Print Post
Posted on 24-08-2021 18:34

Location: Franconia, Germany
Posts: 1617
Joined: 11.11.18

Zeegers wrote:
- um, please (- gramma really is neutrum)


Done (copy/paste from the Gallery) - is gramma plural?
Greetings, Eric
Thomas Pape
#6 Print Post
Posted on 16-09-2021 09:26

Location: Natural History Museum of Denmark
Posts: 110
Joined: 29.08.05

Theo and others:
The gender of the name Miltogramma has been much debated but is not generally considered as feminine. Here citing Sabrosky (1999: 16), in his treatment of Diptera family-group names:

“There are three generic names ending in -gramma in one family, Sarcophagidae. Miltogramma Meigen 1803, the oldest and most important of the three—and which may have suggested the later use of -gramma in the other two—is apparently feminine, from internal evidence in the description and from the fact that the first author to associate species with it, Meigen himself in 1824 had 12 of the 15 specific names with feminine endings (fasciata, taeniata, punctata, etc.; the other three did not show gender). The first author to propose a family-group name based on this genus also used the simple stem consistent with feminine gender: Miltogrammini Lioy 1864. [...] The third genus, Chrysogramma Rohdendorf 1935, was treated as neuter, the type being C. variabile Rohdendorf and the concurrently proposed subtribe Chrysogrammatina having the typical augmented stem of neuter-ma names. Rohdendorf also changed Miltogramminae to Miltogrammatinae, in line with his treatment of the other genera. It is awkward and confusing that within one family three generic names with the same ending show two different genders, reflected in different endings of the specific names and different stems and endings for the family-group names. There is also a genus Xanthogramma in Syrphidae, which has had a subfamily name Xanthogramminae founded on it. Clearly it would be useful to have an arbitrary rule, like that for names ending in ops treated as masculine (Code, Art. 30a.ii), that all-gramma names are to be treated alike, either all feminine or all neuter, regardless of derivation or first associated species. The shortest solution would be to call them all feminine, which is the most likely derivation, with the simple stem -gramm-. This would agree with the oldest and most important genus, Miltogramma, which governs the name of the important subfamily Miltogramminae.”

And under Miltogramma in the same book:
“The first specific names associated with Miltogramma were treated as feminine, by Meigen 1824, the author of the genus. Internal evidence in both the original description (1803) and the later and more elaborate description (1824) suggests derivation from the feminine gramme: “Die Stirn mit einem rothgelben Mittelstreifen” (frons with orange stripe).”

Thomas Pape
#7 Print Post
Posted on 19-09-2021 09:30

Location: Soest, NL
Posts: 16468
Joined: 21.07.04

Thanks Thomas, for the feedback.
i can see your point.
The Greek -gramma is neutrum, but the Latin -gramma can be derived from both the Greek -gramma or the Greek -gramme, latter being feminine. In this case, the latter interpretation seems to make more sense.

Edited by Zeegers on 19-09-2021 09:31
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17 October 2021 05:29


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23.09.21 15:29
All sorted.

16.09.21 22:24
Sorry put 5 new threads in Asilidae forum instead in Syrphidae forum, can pleas an admin move it to Syrph? THANKS, Norbert

09.09.21 07:48

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wing ventation is totally different

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28.06.21 15:24
thx TO eklans

03.06.21 11:11
@Tony Irwin Thank you Tony! I've emailed you there Pfft

02.06.21 22:26
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02.06.21 13:16
Hello chaps! Does anyone have a copy of: Revision of the willow catkin flies, genus Egle Robineau-Desvoidy (Diptera: Anthomyiidae), in Europe and neighbouring areas ?? I'd be ever so grateful! Rob

31.05.21 14:31
The part that got deleted is "longer, dark median stripe on thorax"

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