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 Azelia male (continued)
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| Sundew |
Posted on 10-06-2011 19:11
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 Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Hi, This small fly I saw in Austria, Tyrol, Niederthai (1.500 m) in last August. The only flies with such dotted abdomen I know belong to the Muscidae; however, the eyes of this male are strange. Anthomyiidae might be another option... Help, please! Many thanks, Sundew Sundew attached the following image:  [163.21Kb] Edited by Sundew on 11-06-2011 19:24 |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 10-06-2011 19:12
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
More pics.
Sundew attached the following image:  [157.69Kb] |
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| neprisikiski |
Posted on 10-06-2011 19:31
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Member Location: Lithuania Posts: 876 Joined: 23.02.09 |
It is Azelia sp.
Erikas |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 10-06-2011 19:36
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Ah - a genus new for me - many thanks, Erikas! It resembles the male of thread http://72.44.83.9...pid=135710, so perhaps A. cilipes, too? |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 10-06-2011 20:53
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 Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
I agree, Azelia cilipes or nebulosa. It is difficult to see whether it has a pd on t2 or not, or the number of av on t3.
Stephane. |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 10-06-2011 20:59
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 Member Location: Clitheroe Lancashire UK Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
I thought I saw the pd (for A. cilipes) in the first picture of post 2. |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 10-06-2011 21:06
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
I'm sure Claudia will find another photo showing it. 
Stephane. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 10-06-2011 23:09
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 Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9305 Joined: 24.05.05 |
cilipes and nebulosa usually have different abdominal pattern: - lateral spots large, almost touch median spots - nebulosa - lateral spots small, well separated from median spots - cilipes This male has typical "cilipes" pattern. Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 10-06-2011 23:21
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Thank you Nikita, it's a useful information. Is it also available for females ? Azelia is a nightmare for me. I have many females undetermined because of the colour of the tibiae (can't make the difference between light brown ,brownish yellow etc.).
Stephane. |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 11-06-2011 09:35
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9305 Joined: 24.05.05 |
Stephane, I hear several doubts in one your question. At my opinion: 1. In West Palaearctic females nebulosa and cilipes seem reliably separated by t2 d preapical. (I hadn't checked female's abdominal pattern yet.) 2. Generally, keys for females aren't reliable at all even for Europe. 3. So far, I ignore females Azelia collected without males or label its as "collected with male of A. ..." 4. I have more than enough doubts in taxonomy of males, so I'm working on this problem as a first step. Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Stephane Lebrun |
Posted on 11-06-2011 17:51
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Member Location: Le Havre, France Posts: 8248 Joined: 03.03.07 |
Thanks Nikita, I feel less alone now ! Indeed, it was not only about A. cilipes/nebulosa, but for the other females.
Stephane. |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 11-06-2011 19:19
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Now. this is a really hot discussion! Let's go on with males - you wanted me to show you some more legs  . Here they are, though I am afraid the needed bristles might be less well visible. I am sorry I have no better legs to show (Azelia concerned)...
Sundew attached the following image:  [171.79Kb] |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 11-06-2011 19:22
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
However, Nikita's point to different spot patterns is very helpful for me. So I guess I found also a male of A. nebulosa in the same place some days later. What do you say to this one?
Sundew attached the following image:  [190.32Kb] |
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| Nikita Vikhrev |
Posted on 12-06-2011 00:12
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Member Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 9305 Joined: 24.05.05 |
1. The first new series of photos confirm our ID as cilipes, see image attached. 2. I can say, that I'm happy that my character really separate these 2 species OK. You are right, the second series is nebulosa. Nikita Vikhrev attached the following image:  [62.75Kb] Edited by Nikita Vikhrev on 12-06-2011 11:07 Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University |
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| Sundew |
Posted on 12-06-2011 19:26
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Member Location: Berlin and Baden-Württemberg, Germany Posts: 3890 Joined: 28.07.07 |
Great - many thanks, Nikita!! |
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