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Hello,

I am confused. I have a Oestroidea Fly, which seems to have a small and too flat subscutellum for Tachinidae. If I follow Oosterbroek's (2006) Family key it has to be a Rhinophoridae. But i am not sure about the determination result and guess it is a Calliphoridae may be genus Pollenia. Does somebody has some experience with the determination of Rhinophoridae and can tell me why it is or it is not a Rhinophoridae.

Thanks

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Whole Fly

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Wing

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With the curly pale hairs on the scutellum and mesonotum it is quite clear that you are dealing with Pollenia

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yes it is a Pollenia but you don't show enough features to be useful for a species id: how many ad on t2? we need to see t3 ad, av and pd. We also need to see a dorsal photo of the thorax (inner ph present? outer ph present?)

Also: what about location? where did you collect it?

Best wishes,
John

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Hi, thanks for answering

Sry it`s my first thread in this forum.

The location is a pure pine forest near Herzberg Brandenburg-Germany.

I thought it's Pollenia because of the hairs, but it would be nice to know, how I can differentiate from the Rhinophoridae by the key.

the description in the key:

"Subscutellum distinctly swollen (convex) but not strongly developed, at
most half as deep as high (fig. 415)" --> Rhinophoridae

"Subscutellum distinctly flat, not swollen (fig. 417)" --> Caliphoridae

I`m not sure if it would be allowed to show those pictures? :(


in the moment I just need to know the family, but if you like i will use the next opportunity, when i work with binocular to take a dorsal picture. And what you need else?

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Hello Freedy_Fly,

Thank you for specifying the region. I don't need to know the habitat. It is important to state the region/locality of the specimen with every query (initial post).

I don't key flies using a key to families. I can't help you with that. I hate those keys for various reasons. e.g., crinkly golden hairs equals Pollenia. No need to key into hundreds. Calliphoridae also have hairs on the suprasquamal ridge.

I don't need to see anymore than what i asked to see in my earlier post.

Best wishes,
John

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Freddy,

I have no odea which key you use, but Rhinophords are easily recognized by their small calyoter (as in Scathophagidae) and their posterior spiracle (breathing opening in thorax) without distinct operculum (= door). Please note that some Calliphoridae (Melanomyia cum suis) share the first feature.

The postscutellum (subscutellum, if you wish) is indeed slightly convex in Rhinophoridae, but I would never use this as main feature. It is difficult to see and difficult to explain.

Main message: if the calypter is large, typical “Calyptratae”, it is NOT a Rhinophorid.

Furthermore, we don’t have Rhinophorids larger than 8 mm.

Theo

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@Zeegers,

Thx for your comprehensive answer. it really helps.

By the way the key is of Oosterbroek (2006): The European Families of Diptera, actually it`s the first problem i had with this key

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Yes, it is a pretty useful key.
As said, I would never have used this feature for Rhinophrids. It is correct, but it takes a lot of experience to be understood correctly.

Theo