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Hi all,

Today I took a photo of probable Hemipenthes maurus. I compared it to older picture and now I am not sure, whether both pictures are of the same species. Can anybody help me?

Picture from 12 July 2014, Starohorske mts., Carpathians, Slovakia, 550 m.a.s.l., forested valey:

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And picture form 21 July 2013, Banska Bystrica, Carpathians, Slovajkia, only 400 m.a.s.l., dry grassland in patchy landscape

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Hi, treebreard :) As far as I know both specimens only can be Hemipenthes maurus ;) The extention of the dark areas on the wing can be rather variable (anything to do with both sexs? I don't know about that, but it happens in the specimens I see here in Spain). But the existence of transparent windows on the dark areas of the wing leaves no chance for another similar species. Besides those similar species are absent in your area.

Hope this helps :)

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I agree with the second. the first, however, has clear fenestrae in the wing. therefore, it must be celomene, jacchus or similar species.mAs far as I can see the antenna, I'd favour the first.

Theo

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But Theo, jacchus and cleomene are Exoprosopa genus, with different abdominal and thorathic pattern and also different venation (Exoprosopa has an additional crossed vein in the apical area that Hemipenthes and the specimens in the pictures lack ;) )

:)

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I agree the additional crossvein is lacking, so it can't be Exoprosopa.
Still, hard to believe this is one and the same species.
Any other options in the Carpathians ?

Theo

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The only Hemipenthes that look similar to H. maura are H. villeneuvi (Pyrenees and Alps) y H. vockerothi (Spanish endemism). Those two are told apart from maura due to the absence of fenestrae in the dark areas of the wings. So it cannot be any of those. There is a species from southern Russia that I don't know anything about: H. eversmanni. Unless it is that one, no other chance than maura. Because one thing is certain: those two specimens are Hemipenthes ;)

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All these alternatives are pretty unlikeky in Slovakia.
The variation in the dark wingbar reaching the hind margin or not, is quite baffling. Maybe you should look into it ?

Theo

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I have looked into it ;) and the only thing I can do is to post pictures of two different specimens of Hemipenthes maura photographed in the same day in the same spot in Navacerrada pass (Madrid mountains, Spain) in July 2011.

Here is one of them:

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And this is the other one. I keep thinking that the extension of the wingbar has to do with the sexes. It happens in Exoprosopa. Why not in Hemipenthes too? It wouldn't be too surprising.

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And just to compare, a Hemipenthes vockerothi, in Sierra Nevada (SE Spain) in August 2013. Pay attention to the complete white band in the abdomen (not truncated in the middle) and the wings without fenestrae. H. villeneuvi should look the same.

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Nice pictures !
Can you sex them from picture or is that impossible ?

Theo

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Theo, I cannot sex Hemipenthes through pictures in general terms :( However, in the case of H. maura, I have read this in Engel:

Die hellen Seitenstreifen des Mesonotums meist gelblich. Flügelzeichnung variabel; beim Maennchen endet meist der dunkle, hakenförmige Streifen, welcher die Diskalzelle distal umzieht, in der 2. Hinterrandzelle, während er bei den meisten Weibchen den Hinterrand des Flügels erreicht.

With my poor German, I think it refers exactly to the extension of the wingbar in both sexes. Can you confirm? If it is so, something else I know for sure ;)

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You german is not nearly so poor as you cleim it to be!

Theo

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sorry for the typo 'claim'

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Thanks a lot, Theo! :D :D I swear it is very poor indeed but I can manage ;) Google translator into Spanish makes less sense than what I can understand by my own in this case :@ :D :D

If you think the statement in Engel is convincing enough, can treebeard finally put a name to his Hemipenthes?

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Wow! I did not expect so extensive converstaion. Thank you very much, I learned some new things. As far as I understood your converastion, both specimens are H. maura. It means no surprise, I found out that there are only three Hemipententes species in Slovak checklist, maura, morio and velutinus.

Matej