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15th June this year, dry grassland on shingle. I've been trying to run this through Belshaw and come up with Nilea hortulana (though not with a great deal of confidence). Does that look about right?

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lateral

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Hind tibia

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It is quite likely Nilea, have you ruled out innoxia?

Jaakko

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Thanks Jaakko. The only Nilea on the British list is hortulana at the moment, so that makes life easier. Looking through the keys again, one thing that does confuse me still are Belshaws 'reclinate bristles on the parafrontal' and Tschorsnig's 'oi', which should be one for Nilea, and which I think I can see two of!

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Hmm.. I don't have any keys with me, but if it has 4 st, it should be Tlephusa cincinna. Are the palps black(ish)/not yellow?

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It has strikingly pale palps and three st. If I run it with two oi it comes out as Huebneria affinis.

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It does look like it has 2 reclinates so perhaps it is Huebneria? It is a very rare species in the UK but you had one a while ago that we both agreed was Huebneria so it is possible :) When I visited the NHM a few weeks ago they didn't have any UK specimens :)

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Aah, was that the specimen I gave you at the tachinid course at Preston Montford the year before last (I never found out what that was)? If it was it explains the sense of deja vu I had while keying this one! This will be one for you then I think. Aren't you running an id day early next year? I could bring it to that if you are, and I also have some other stuff I have puit aside to send to send to you.

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Hi Chris - yes I think we are doing another workshop - they'll get sick of the sight of us soon, I think! ;) One day we might actually have to finish the book too - though the finishing line seems as far away as ever - the key is up to date though - I'm doing that bit! ;)

Bring the latest Huebneria along and if you remind me before the date I'll bring the 2 specimens I have here (your first and the one I have from Russia). :)

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Will do Chris. Could you give me the date and grid reference for the Preston Montford specimen so I can stick it on our database?

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Hi again,

Hubneria affinis (note the spelling) is plausible, especially if the apical scutellars are erect and there are only three humeral bristles. They can be locally quite numerous here and by far the most common tachinid reared from any mid-sized to large arctiid moth. Collect some Parasemia plantaginis, Phragmatobia fuliginosa or Arctia caja larvae in the spring, I'm sure you'll get out at least some affinis.

I finally managed to send a parcel to Theo, so maybe I will get around to send one to Chris as well... I could include some affinis as well.

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Thanks for that Jaakko. The apical scuttlellars are erect (about 45 degrees) and there are only three humeral bristles, so it's looking promising. A real feature of this place early in the year are the number of arctiid larvae we find moving around, so I will give rearing some of them a go.

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Thanks Jaakko - all donations very gratefully received! :D

Huebneria is an unusual species because in Europe it seems fairly easy to find but over here we had just two records until recently. The NHM in London has lots of European specimens but the only UK specimens are at Oxford University Museum.

Consequently I have never felt very confident about keying UK Huebneria so I held back on publishing Chris's record but recently I have become quite sure that it is correct :)

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20. vi. 07 and TQ745186 :)

As I said, I was a bit unsure of the determination until very recently because it looks a bit different from my Russian one. But I had a look through the NHM specimens and they show quite a wide range of variation so I think the ID is good. It should really be published so perhaps you can write-up both when we have confirmed the second one? :)

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Here's a Hubneria affinis reared from fuliginosa, Ab:Lieto, Southern Finland, spring 2008.

About the nomeclature (Theo might have a different opinion): The original is genus name is Hubneria (R-D), but as it refers to the famous naturalist (not naturist) Hübner, the spelling was later corrected (by Herting, if I remember right). Might be linguistically more right, but anyways against the code.

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Yup - the 2 I have here look like that too. Orange scutellum with erect, short apical scutellars; and the abdomen has lots of erect bristles and hairs or the dorsum - and only 3 bristles in a line on the humeral callus :)

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Hmm, that grid reference is not the same place as I collected the specimen (should be TQ934174). Does the data card say Rye Harbour NR (and have my name on it!)?

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Hi Chris - It's certainly one of yours from Rye Harbour NR but the grid reference is handwritten and on second thoughts the first number could be a 9 - making it TQ945186 - does that sound better? :D

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Phew, thought someone else was gonna get my glory there! I'll have to check my archived notebooks for the exact spot, but that is the grid ref for my garden (and not to far from the current specimen) so I suspect that I had it in my head that it came from somewhere else on the reserve, hence the confusion. I'd be very happy to writre this and the current record up, and I guess we can chat about it at the workshop.

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Don't worry - it definitely says you were the collector :D I have even just added it and this new record to the species account in the new book with your name against it too ;) There's still plenty of time to get your name in print first though and we can chat more at the workshop (February 13th?)

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I'm sorry, but I don't see any erect scutellar bristles.

Huebneria should be easy:
Coxa 3 with bristles on backside
Descending bristles on the parafrontalia doubling near end of row (a bit like in Dufouria).


Theo

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Interesting, but I haven't heard of the doubled-up parafacials. Chris's first Huebneria has both Theo's features :) but my Russian one just has a single row of parafacials :( Both have just 3 humeral-callus bristles in a line, a wholly orange scutellum and erect, crossed apical scutellars and hairs on the hind coxae. :)

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Hi Theo. It does have erect scuttlellars, but my photos are at an oblique angle (and are rubbish) so you can't see them, and it also has the three humeral callus bristles. I'm away from my specimens for the next couple of days, but I'l have a look at it again when I come back and check the other chracteristsics you mentioned.

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The doubling of the facial bristles is not always very clear.

The setulae on coxa 3 are a very good indication for Huebneria, but difficult to see. If you see them properly, that is a strong indication you are right.

The apical scutellar bristles should be at least suberect.


Theo

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Chris's latest specimen looks very similar to the one he caught at the same location in 2007 (a locality within the rough geographic range of the previous 2 UK records), and which is in my possession. It matches all of Theo's criteria perfectly:
- hairy dorsum of hind coxae - 2-3 long hairs
- orange scutellum with erect apical scutellars
- doubled-up lines of parafacial bristles
- a line of just 3 bristles on the humeral callus

My Russian specimen is much smaller in size but it also matches all of the above criteria, except the doubled-up parafacials - in this specimen there is just a clear, straight line of bristles. :)

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My couple of days turned into a week, as when I came back a lightning storm had scrambled our router! Anyway, here is an image showing apical scuttelars....

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...and one showing coxal bristles.

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Yeah, I think that shows enough ... if you get any more specimens you might have one spare to give to the NHM ... they still don't have a British Huebneria :p

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Good-o! I think I shall give some arctiid rearing a go next year as Jaakko suggested and see if I can turn any more up. To be honest, I feel that this thread has given me a real handle on the species so I'd be quite willing to donate this specimen to the NHM. It's more use in their hands than mine.

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You could get all kinds of nice things down there by the coast if you rear out larvae - don't forget to look at Brown-tail moth too, for Carcelia laxifrons and Townsendielomya :)

Erica McAlister at the NHM is always happy to receive donations - just sort out a letter for her confirming that you have permission to collect there.

They gave me a 'wants list' at the weekend which had quite a few fairly common species that have colonized recently. So I gave them some Sturmia bella, Paracraspedothrix montivaga and Phasia barbifrons - but more would be gratefully received :D

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I've had Townsendiellomyia (you have a couple of my specimens!) and what are almost certainly Carcelia laxifrons in each of the last two years. I'll bring some of the latter to the workshop at Dinton Pastures in February for your opinion.

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Thanks :D