Diptera.info

Thread subject: Diptera.info :: Flying can be fun for two

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 29-10-2007 22:33

Simosyrphus grandicornis, if my information is correct. Never seen this type of tandemflight before!

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 29-10-2007 22:34

alternative angle

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 29-10-2007 22:36

cannot get enough of it!

Posted by javig on 29-10-2007 22:47

These photos are impressive! :o

Posted by Kahis on 29-10-2007 23:28

aaaaand where were the photos taken? :@ Not in Amstelvee I guess :)

Posted by Gerard Pennards on 29-10-2007 23:33

Another Australian species....nice!!:D:D
Greetings

Posted by cosmln on 29-10-2007 23:46

just WOW photo.
thanks for sharing.

cosmln

Posted by conopid on 29-10-2007 23:52

Fantastic captures - well done.

Posted by Susan R Walter on 30-10-2007 01:11

How does one tell the difference between Simosyrphus grandicornis and Melangyna viridiceps? See my post http://www.dipter...ad_id=9139

Edited by Susan R Walter on 30-10-2007 01:12

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 10:11

#10

Thanks for all enthousiastic replies!

@Kahis: Amstelveen? ...close, but no sigar! Melbourne, actually. B)

Unless I mixed up various species, this is the only really common hoverfly I've seen.

@Susan: I've not the faintest idae, honestly. I contacted someone in Australia, who was quite confident about this fly. I can ask her though. Will take some time!

Posted by Andre on 30-10-2007 12:22

#11

Impressive series! All frozen without 'freezing' them? :o

Posted by Susan R Walter on 30-10-2007 14:25

#12

Cor

I'd appreciate it if you could find out something. The names do not appear to be synonyms, but I can't distinguish any real differences between the two in images on the internet. I strongly suspect that one or both of them gets misidentified very frequently.

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 16:53

#13

@Susan: I've forwarded your question to Susan Wright, who came up with the original ID.

@Andre: Well, digitally freezing only... The strong sun shine gave me quite the opposite feeling ;)

Posted by Maddin on 30-10-2007 19:29

#14

Susan R Walter wrote:
Cor

I'd appreciate it if you could find out something. The names do not appear to be synonyms, but I can't distinguish any real differences between the two in images on the internet. I strongly suspect that one or both of them gets misidentified very frequently.

I looked into that: In Vockeroth's Syrphini revision, both genera are in there and it seems, reading the description that the Melangyna (Austrosyrphus) viridiceps has a black thorax, and a yellow face with a black middle stripe, while Simosyrphus grandiconis (the only species of this genus) has yellow notopleural stripes and a completely yellow face. So most of these pics might be Simosyrphus - this said without having seen any types....
The Australian fauna is very interesting, but not very rich, and it would be so great to revise the few Syrphids from there... Who wants to do it?

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 20:16

#15

Here's a portrait, confirming the white face.

I agree with the statement

The Australian fauna is very interesting, but not very rich,

edit:
well actually, given my extremely limited experience, all I can reasonably say is: I would use similar words to describe my short stay.
Three days of searching with only three species of hoverfly is not what you might call a rich harvest. I experienced the same for bees & wasps, and butterflies. Dragonflies was somewhat better, though still the number of species was quite small. Plants and ants, as well as birds is much better.

I have given this some thoughts. The habitats I've seen (tiny tiny fraction only!) seem nutrient poor. May be this causes the very low number of insects I saw?!

For those interested in more on Melbourne's wildlife, see my webpage, www.corzonneveld.nl-> favorite photo's -> Victoria 2007. I'm still working on it, but it gives already some impressions.

Edited by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 23:38

Posted by Susan R Walter on 30-10-2007 22:02

#16

The Australian fauna is very interesting, but not very rich,

made me laugh. I come from an area in Australia where it is possible to see perhaps 100 species of butterfly, and moved to an area in the UK where I would be lucky to see 30, and perhaps 60 in the Loire Valley where we have our maison secondaire.

I think you need to get your eye in for entomology in Australia. Many places are dry and hot and the insects hide.

Martin - many thanks for looking up the descriptions for these syrphids - I will pass this on to my family.

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 22:24

#17

made me laugh

Sorry, no offence intended!

I think you need to get your eye in for entomology in Australia

Yes, sure. Regrettably I had too little time to adjust to a different regime. It was a nice experience though.

My short visit learned me one more thing: I thought Holland was windy, but Melbourne might easily beat it! (again, far too short observation time...)

Edited by Cor Zonneveld on 30-10-2007 22:24

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 31-10-2007 12:27

#18

Great series of photos!!! Congratulations! One of the best series!

Vladimir Davydov, Nikita Vikhrev, Dima (Black), Javig, Rafael Estevez, Dima DD, morfa (John from Sweden), Tony T (for micro-macro!!), Frank Koehler are great photographers! The nectar of photography! :) (I will edit this post whenever I remember all others.)

Anymore suggestions?

Posted by Susan R Walter on 31-10-2007 15:03

#19

Cor

I am not in the least offended - I was amused. I knew where Martin was coming from - Australia is missing all sorts of big families of creatures, but the ones it does have can occur in large numbers and be extremely interesting - often endemic to relatively small areas. There is a lot of speciation in Australia because populations get separated by unsuitable terrain.

Your own experience is not uncommon either. I used to be astonished that friends of mine could visit from the UK and never see a kangaroo of any sort in the wild, but it happens so often that I have come to realise that I was totally habituated and so tuned in to spotting the wildlife in a way that visitors don't get a chance to be.

Melbourne certainly can be windy, btw, and it is a hot north wind, just right for whipping up the bushfires and sending a pall of dust over the city.:D

Posted by Maddin on 31-10-2007 17:35

#20

Susan, my point was that Australia has a species poor fauna of Syrphids, with about 400 described species it has the same diversity as Europe, but it is much bigger. (The same is true for Africa by the way). But certain groups are much more diverse, for exapmle the Stratiomyidae with also 400 species, are rather rich and the Therevidae have 350 species, but at least 200 undescribed species. Therefore half of the worlds species diversity of Therevidae is in Australia.... So it is hard to make general comments cause the Australien fauna is sometimes extremely rich and in some groups extremely poor, but always very interesting. And it can be hard to collect there, I went to the East Coast rain forest during a draught and I did not find anything, worst collecting in my life, while firends had the best collecting of their lifetime in Australia... still a fascinating continent indeed..:)

Posted by Susan R Walter on 01-11-2007 15:28

#21

It's always a drought there now :( That's why I live in the UK.

Were you collecting in FNQ (tropical) or northern NSW (temperate)?

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 03-11-2007 10:32

#22

If I understood Martin's description, this must be Melangyna (Austrosyrphus) viridiceps.

I placed it here in view of Susan's enquiry and Martin's comparative description of Simosyrphus and Melangyna.

Posted by Susan R Walter on 03-11-2007 13:52

#23

Cor

Many thanks. That's really useful.

Posted by Cor Zonneveld on 08-11-2007 17:34

#24

Here is some additional info from Susan Wright.

I can spot Simosyrphus grandicornis quite easily but sometimes to explain to someone else can be a little difficult. I have had a look at the two species side by side from the collection and I think there are a few easy characters which you should be able to see in most photos. The character that first separates the genera in the key (Vockeroth's 1969) is Simosyrphus has a distinct margin on at least tergite 5 and in Melangyna (Austrosyrphus) this is absent. This character probably isn't visible in most photos and it is always hard to distinguish a character when you don't have an example of its presence to compare it to. There are a number of species of Melangyna (Austrosyrphus) in Australia and they are a bit hard to distinguish easily (not to mention there are probably a few species undescribed just to muddy the waters even more).

So a few characters to spot the difference between the two species you have asked about in a photo. I checked the website you posted your photos to and found the original enquiry and based on Susan's photo (which is definitely Simosyrphus grandicornis) you can see a yellow scutellum, the yellow face/frons, and the yellow lateral stripe on the thorax all of which M. viridiceps doesn't have. The shape of the abdomen is different - S.grandicornis is fairly bulbous and M. viridiceps is parallel sided and the legs are mostly yellow in S. granidicornis and all black in M. viridiceps.

Some species of Melangyna (Austrosyrphus) have a darker yellow face and scutellum but none of the ones I have checked in the collection have that yellow lateral stripe. The abdomen shape can vary a little.

Posted by Susan R Walter on 09-11-2007 10:54

#25

Many thanks Cor for putting Susan's comments up here. They are really clear and useful. Please thank her on my behalf too.