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Hi,

If you remember just few days ago I tried to identify a Lepidoptera caterpillar and was surprise to get a Tachinid from it http://www.dipter...rowstart=0
Well I went to the same Chrozophora obliqua and found another caterpillar looks like the same as the first with the same bite in the same place. coincidental ?? Or that Leskiini always bit on the same place?

I'm keeping this one to see what?s get out, but we still have a small problem. Last time the enthusiasm was about matching Tachinid + host and I still don't know which moth's caterpillar is it. This is why I collected it from the beginning.

I'll keep updating this post after the fly'll get out (about a week) and meanwhile any identification on this caterpillar is welcome.

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Good work - well spotted :D Looks like a parasitized larvae to me but I don't think we can say what it is yet.

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To me it seems some kind of Chinese black ink on caterpillar. :D lol
Good try. :) lol

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Please do collect the specimen, if one pops up, this time !!

Theo

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update:
caterpillar turn into a 6mm pupa. I'm not sure if it's the caterpillar pupa or the fly pupa. What do you say?
If this is a Tachinid pupa I guess the dirt around it are the remains of the caterpillar body.

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That would be my guess :D Sounds like an ideal scanario ... much more exciting to have a tachinid from your larvae than boring old butterflies or moths ;) Let us know what happens - we wait with baited breath!

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Hatched

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and dorsal view

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great, it still looks like Leskiini.

I guess you will collect it this time.

If you want me to have a look at it, please send an persoanl mail.


Theo

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Sent PM.

Do you need any close up photo for identification? or is it completely unidentifiable from photo?

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When identifying from a photo you really can only do species that you are confident about because you have seen many before and have keyed them to make 100% sure they are what you think they are - very rarely can you see all features needed by the major keys (eg. the episternum would be impossible to see if it was needed). I don't think Theo would like to venture a name for something unusual and outside his normal geographical area without keying the specimen :)

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Chris is a terrific mind-reader.


Theo

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I got the specimen, thanks to Zcuc.
And it's a male of Fischeria bicolor, closely related to Solieria.
This is a quite rare Mediterrean species, so far as I know reared only once:from Alophia combustella, a caterpillar carnivorous on Aphids on Pistacea.
So, A great discovery. Now we need to get more info on the host.

Thanks to Zcuc,


Theo

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Great record - and a good demonstration of how anyone can make new and important discoveries with tachinids ... with a little help from the experts ;) More rearing records please! :)

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I just learned that there have been more reared cases of Fischeria, unpublished, hosts so far in Pyralidae and Tortricidae.
So I hope somebody might ID the host from picture to at least family level ?

Theo

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show me the photos of the host. I can tell the possible family. :) I know some lepidopteran families. :)

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Jorge, on top of this thread and a second host in the link given there.


Theo

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You'll have to recognize the caterpillar. Hosts do not survive the parazitization by Tachinids.

My feeling is that this larva will not add a new family as far as potential hosts are concerned.

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ok... I slept only 2 hours today. :S
It is Noctuidae - Noctua pronuba - probably.

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Hi,

I'm almost sure that this is not Noctuidae and for sure not Noctua pronuba.
larva of N.pronuba can be seen here:
http://www.leps.it/indexjs.htm?SpeciesPages/NoctuaPronu.htm

is not looking completely different from pyralids or tortricids i have reared (will be useful to know something more about: size, host plant if possible, was between leaves in something like a tube or...). but usually pyralids and tortricids larva are more slender... but i can say that this is not a very healthy larva :)

cosmln

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Noctuidae it is....

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You overlooked that Zcuc told us the host plant: it's Chrozophora obliqua, an annual of the giant Spurge family (Euphorbiaceae), subfamily Acalyphoideae. Though the members of this subfamily usually have no latex, they nevertheless contain many toxic substances and should thus be not very attractive to predatory insects. Chrozophora still upgrades its defence by the stellate hairs that densely cover the plant surface. There are, however, caterpillars that use secondary plant metabolites to become toxic themselves and be then avoided by birds or other enemies. Fischeria, though, was obviously not impressed.
I googled the combination "Chrozophora obliqua /Noctuidae" and came across an article that I unfortunately could not open in full length. In this paper, somewhere the Black Cutworm, Agrotis ipsilon, was mentioned. In an internet paper on the species there is a description of the caterpillar that fits quite well:
(http://edis.ifas....)
The given pictures are not very good but also bear a certain resemblance to Zcuc's caterpillar. So, if Noctuidae, Agrotis would be my choice.
This was the comment of a non-lepidopterologist who finds the subject exciting!
Sundew

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Agrotis larva usually feed on roots or leaves that are on the soil (at least A.ipsilon for sure).

cosmln

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That's true. Here is another citation from the internet article mentioned above:

If you have a look at the Chrozophora obliqua pictures in the internet, you see that it is a partly prostrate herb that grows close to the ground!;)
Sundew

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Some help with caterpillar, maybe it'll help.

Found hiding inside a folder leaf. was fairly agile when walking.
It has 5 rows of dots in each side of the body. marked as 1-5. row 3 had empty dots. row 2 consist of 2 small dots. on the back it has several rows of green colouration dark and light. each black dot had a bristle came out of it.

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this ...
"
Found hiding inside a folder leaf. was fairly agile when walking...
"

is characteristic for Pyralidae/Tortricidae (also the form) so... i remain there. i don't have a guide for larva of this group just the one i have breed and i have not breed something similar.

cosmln

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I agree that this behaviour is typical for larvae of tortrix moths and snout moths. Apart from the still lacking information on the caterpillar's size, it would be interesting to know whether the leaf was folded artificially by activity of the animal. I am afraid, however, that this case can be solved only by an Israeli entomologist who knows which butterfly larvae feed on Chrozophora obliqua. Much to my regret I have to quit here...:(
Sundew

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STill no white smoke on the host,
experts best bets are Pyralidae, for the moment.


Theo

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I have asked around (K. Silvonen and Yahoo group UKMoths), but no solution to this mystery so far. I guess one should ask the lepidoptera experts in Israel who are acquainted with this fauna.

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i think will be easier if he will try to search for some larva on that plant and raise them. ussualy this kind of larva is not so rare (Pyralidae or Tortricidae), just search for new folded leaves, maybe he will find even with pupa inside.

cosmln

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Good idea, however, unlikely it can be done this year.
So let's do both.


Theo