Thread subject: Diptera.info :: small non-Bibionid (?)

Posted by Sundew on 19-10-2007 15:19
#1

Hi,
Cars are the worst Diptera killers, they wipe out whole swarms of tiny flies. I picked one that was already clinically dead and put it under the stereo microscope. It appeared to be a black Bibionid (?) with hairy wings and blonde hairs on the thorax. Is there any more identification possible?
Thanks, Sundew
The scale bar in the upper left gives mm.

Edited by Sundew on 19-10-2007 17:58

Posted by ChrisR on 19-10-2007 15:54
#2

Not a bibionid but maybe Scatopsidae?

Posted by Sundew on 19-10-2007 17:44
#3

Scatopsidae have different antennae. In my photos, the hairy wings and the bristles on the antennae segments recall Cecidomyiidae, but the latter have longer antennae.
Are there further family suggestions? Obviously, our knowledge of the minute flies is still incomplete...
Sundew

Posted by Paul Beuk on 19-10-2007 17:53
#4

Mouthparts would suggest Ceratopogonidae.

Posted by Sundew on 19-10-2007 18:25
#5

In Ceratopogonidae, females with bristly antennae are also met! So I suppose Paul has supplied me with the right family - thanks! Now we know where to search further, perhaps a genus guess is possible? If not, I'll stand it...
Sundew

Posted by Andre on 19-10-2007 20:14
#6

Wing venation and the really upright positions of the hairs on the antennae would lead me to Chironomidae. Male can be very hairy... what would you say Paul?
Greetings ;)

Posted by Andre on 19-10-2007 20:16
#7

And do I see the edge of the pronotum sticking out in front of the thorax?

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 19-10-2007 20:38
#8

Ceratopogonidae. :)

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 19-10-2007 20:44
#9

Do you have one shot of mouthparts for this fly? It would help.. ;)

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 19-10-2007 20:53
#10

as the M vein doesn't fork... it would give us to Chironomidae...
with the mouthparts well visible we will wipe out any doubts, I hope. :)

Posted by Xespok on 19-10-2007 21:58
#11

I still think this should be a Chironomid.

Posted by Sundew on 20-10-2007 01:45
#12

There are no better pics from the mouth part than those below. In high magnification the depth of focus unfortunately is very low. The head is peculiar with several "appendices" beside the antennae. If the photos are not sufficient, I could try to get better ones, as I have kept the animal. However, my equipment has already reached its limits...
Sundew

Posted by Tony Irwin on 20-10-2007 10:29
#13

I'd say Chironomidae - based on the postpronotal groove, prominent ante-pronotum, and the long legs which I've never seen in such a hairy ceratopogonid. While most chrionomids have greatly reduced mouthparts, there are a few exceptions, and there are no evident stylets which we might expect in a certatopogonid.
And, to be less objective, - it just "feels" like a chironomid! :)

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 20-10-2007 13:21
#14

Tony, I suppose that there are no chironomids with a fork in M-vein. Is it right?

Posted by Tony Irwin on 20-10-2007 20:13
#15

jorgemotalmeida wrote:
Tony, I suppose that there are no chironomids with a fork in M-vein. Is it right?

As far as I know, that's right. There are a very few ceratopogonids where M is unforked, but usually they do have M1 and M2, even if M2 is faint.

Posted by Sundew on 21-10-2007 00:45
#16

A small fly initiates a big discussion! It was very interesting for me to track your pros and cons concerning the possible families. There is a nice picture of a fossil Chironomid included in Baltic amber (http://www.fossil...idae-b.htm) that closely resembles my specimen according to overall shape, mouth parts, and hairy wings. Chironomids also use to form swarms that stick to the car front. So I second the Chironomidae party, realizing that deeper ID is impossible in this difficult family... Nevertheless many thanks to all who contributed to the discussion in this thread! You were great! (As usual.)
Sundew

Posted by Tony Irwin on 21-10-2007 15:10
#17

The amber fossil is actually one of the phantom midges (Chaoboridae) - closely related to Chironomidae, but distinguished by a more complex wing venation, which is clearly seen in the picture. They are often confused (even here on Diptera.info! :D)

Posted by jorgemotalmeida on 21-10-2007 15:23
#18

Tony Irwin wrote:
The amber fossil is actually one of the phantom midges (Chaoboridae) - closely related to Chironomidae, but distinguished by a more complex wing venation, which is clearly seen in the picture. They are often confused (even here on Diptera.info! :D)



Tony I think these photo I took refers to a Chaoborus sp. >>
http://www.dipter...ad_id=8305
is it right? :)

Posted by Tony Irwin on 21-10-2007 15:32
#19

Yes, Jorge - Chaoboridae, though I'm not sure which species.

Posted by Sundew on 21-10-2007 16:11
#20

Also Jorge's beautifully photographed animal bears a certain resemblance to mine; however, it is much bigger. In larger wings I would expect a more complex venation as a matter of stabilization. The basic pattern need not change by insertion of some more branches, I suppose. (However, my experience comes from leaf venation patterns that naturally are something completely different! Apart from differing functions, nevertheless there is one underlying idea: how can a lamina of given size get stabilized efficiently but economically?)
If a more complex wing venation separates Chaoboridae from Chironomidae, my fly clearly belongs to the latter family. I could not find out the minimum size of Chaoborids, but if there are specimens that measure only a few mm I would like to know whether their wing venation is nevertheless much more complex than in my fly.
Sundew

Posted by Tony Irwin on 21-10-2007 19:25
#21

Sundew wrote:
I could not find out the minimum size of Chaoborids, but if there are specimens that measure only a few mm I would like to know whether their wing venation is nevertheless much more complex than in my fly.


Fortunately (from the taxonomists' point of view) the venation within a family tends to be fairly stable - (or do we create families according to their venation?). Anyway, all the chironomids have very similar venation (apart from those with reduced wings), and all the chaoborids do too. Both families have species that range from 1 or 2 mm to about 10 mm. Tiny chaoborids have more complex (unreduced) venation than large chironomids.
A very small limoniid cranefly has a complex (primitive) venation, with lots of veins reaching the wing margin, but a large tachinid has greatly reduced venation. I guess the veins in the tachinid are stronger, so they can support the larger wing area. The aerodynamics of insect flight is an interesting subject which has been well studied, but I'm no expert on it. There are plenty of papers to study if you want to find out more.