Diptera.info

Posted by zcuc on 14-10-2007 11:55

Hi,
I collected a caterpillar and waited to see what moth it turn to. but instead I got a surprise. this fly came out :o
Is it possible to identify?

Found today at Israel.

P.S title changed according to latest identification.

Edited by zcuc on 14-10-2007 22:18

Posted by zcuc on 14-10-2007 12:10

After rechecking the caterpillar photos I think I can identifiy the bite

Posted by ChrisR on 14-10-2007 15:34

Sorry, not Siphona ... looks more dexiine to me (long legs) and the proboscis is elongated but not long enough and not hinged to be Siphona. Would be nice to key the specimen through, if it has been kept and can be posted to me. I have never seen a tachinid quite like this before :)

Posted by Susan R Walter on 14-10-2007 16:37

Chris

You've highlighted exactly the features that troubled me about this fly, but I thought the only possiblities were Siphona and Prosena, and on balance I thought it looked more like Siphona. We await Theo's comments with extreme curiosity now.:D

Posted by ChrisR on 14-10-2007 17:01

I have a feeling that it is going to be something that is rare in Europe and perhaps the location (Israel) points to something very southern in distribution. But it's a guess without keying it through the Central european or Palaearctic keys and I think it would be impossible to get very far confidently from these photos, so it would need the specimen on a pin ;) It looks fairly distinctive though so perhaps Theo has seen one before? :)

Posted by Zeegers on 14-10-2007 17:55

#10

I agree, no Siphona, seems to be either Dexiini or Leskiini.
Can't tell whether the arista is plumose or bare, that would help.

On the other hand, nearly all Dexiini have hosts in Coleoptera.
Is this host a Lepidoptera-caterpillar ? Certainly looks like it.

In which case it gets more and more interesting.

Need to see the specimen, since it's from Israel, could be something bizarre to west-European standards.

Theo

Posted by zcuc on 14-10-2007 20:49

#11

Hi,
I'm not usually collect insects so by now I guess this fly is searching himself new caterpillar ;)
Maybe if I knew this sp. if so interesting I could had kept it.

Theo, I don't have a very good macro on the arista. does this help?

p.s Size was about 9mm

Posted by Zeegers on 14-10-2007 21:17

#12

Can't see the arista, but it helps, definitely NOT Dexiini.

So it must be somewhere in the Leskiini / Atylostoma-group.
Can you tell is the number of anterodorsal bristles on the mid tibia ?

Theo

Posted by zcuc on 14-10-2007 22:06

#15

I'm not really familer the morphologic terms. thanks jorgemotalmeida
for the link but I still not fully understand what is anterodorsal?
If it is the hairs under the first leg ( right image ) it looks like 9 hairs. if it is the hairs under the dorsal near the first legs (left image) it seem there are ~3-4

Posted by Susan R Walter on 14-10-2007 22:48

#17

Zcuc

Theo wants to see the middle section of the middle leg. He needs to be able to see how many bristles there are pointing outwards and forwards.

Posted by zcuc on 14-10-2007 22:55

#18

Ok,
I think I got it.

Top Image is left legs, second image right legs. It is hard to tell exactly the resolution is not that good. maybe 1-2 bristles on front leg and more on the other.

Posted by ChrisR on 14-10-2007 23:29

#19

It's a pity there is no specimen ... especially since you had good details of the host :( Tachinid + host data is very useful to help us understand what these insects do and what they depend on. If you can take a specimen I would be very interested to identify them for you - especially if they have host data. ;)

To me it looks like 1 anterodorsal (forward-outer) bristle on the mid tibia - the bristle on the end of the tibia are called 'spurs'. :)

Posted by Liekele Sijstermans on 15-10-2007 10:49

#20

Chris, Theo,

We had a very similar species before from Greece:

http://www.diptera.info/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=5&thread_id=7144

And nobody responded then, probably to busy catching less interesting flies.

Maybe these beautifull pictures in this thread give additional information.
I do not recognize the species.

Liekele

Posted by zcuc on 15-10-2007 12:08

#21

Hi Liekele,
your fly looks very familer to mine. it has only one anterodorsal bristles. But my images are trick me, some times it looks like two bristles ( 4 reply above ) and some times only 1 ( rest of pics )

Edited by zcuc on 15-10-2007 12:08

Posted by Zeegers on 15-10-2007 17:53

#22

Liekele good call !

If I interpret the new pictures correctly, one is mirrored. Correct ?
Otherwise, I'm really confused.
If correct, there is 1 ad which makes Leskiini likely.
Nevertheless, I'm not gonna ID a Tachinid from Israel from a picture only. Really need to see the specimen itself.

Theo

Posted by zcuc on 15-10-2007 19:14

#23

Leskiini will be good enough, there are more than 300 Tachinidae in Israel I guess it's not always possible to ID all of them from a pic.

Thanks for all the helpers.

Posted by ChrisR on 15-10-2007 22:17

#24

Next time you get one just stick it in the freezer and get in touch with Theo or myself to have it keyed out ... might be quite an interesting record :)