Diptera.info

Posted by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 18:01

Hi experts,

Maybe this is a very stupid question (although they always told me, the only stupid questions were the ones never asked), but in IntKey they always talk about subapical cell. Is that the same as a discal cell?
IntKey says "with a more or less closed subapical cell (bounded by veins 3 and 4). If I say "without" it rules out Muscidae, but there are Muscids without a sharp bend in vein 4. So I'm out in the cold here. Can someone fill me in? Preferably with an image?

A million thanks,

Andr? Jas

Sorry, I'm trying but it's not easy.

Posted by Nikita Vikhrev on 27-10-2006 19:54

It is part of the wing between veins R4+5, M1+2, rm and apical wing margin (if open).
Some Muscidae have M1+2 curved to R4+5, but nevertheless M1+2 always finished in wing margin (open subapical cell). Some, for example, Tachinidae also have open subapical cell (Ectophasia), some ? closed (Phasia).
Nikita

Posted by Nikita Vikhrev on 27-10-2006 20:03

Viola, Dasyphora albofasciata, Muscidae.
M1+2 curved, but subapical cell is still open.
Nikita

Posted by Tony Irwin on 27-10-2006 20:14

Hi Andr?
I'm not surprised you're confused by this. Inkey is incorrect. Most of the families it excludes when you choose "without" have no more or less closed subapical cell. This is a mistake, which I guess should be notified to the authors. Muscidae is one of those families which should be included by the key in both states (and strictly speaking Tachinidae should as well).

Posted by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 20:20

Hi Nikita,

Thanks for reacting, but this I still don;t understand.
The image is Helina reverso (a muscid) and I would say, this is NOT a (more or less closed) sub apical cell (as IntKey calls it). Still, when I select "without subapical cell", then Muscidae is out of the row with possibilities in IntKey.
So that leaves only the conclusion that this Helina has a subapical cell and that the description in IntKey "(more or less closed)" is wrong.
Is that a correct conclusion?

Andr? Jas

Edited by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 20:21

Posted by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 20:21

I can't seem to get the image in, but you catch my drift.

Andr

Edited by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 20:22

Posted by Andre Jas on 27-10-2006 20:26

Hi Tony,

I was just writing my answer to Nikita, when you reacted. That's why it's a bit mixed up now. But I'm glad I'm no idiot :D. I will try to contact IntKey in order to give them the opportunity to correct things.
Maybe I should put this in the Shoutbox? Because I have noticed more people on this forum, use this program.

Thanks a lot, both of you!

Posted by Kahis on 27-10-2006 21:36

"with a more or less closed subapical cell (bounded by veins 3 and 4)". How stupid is that? It conviniently covers all possible states and still manages to be wrong :@. I HATE keys which rely on readers using ESP to find what the author ment.

I guess the 2nd part of the couplet says "with a more or less open subapical cell " ;)

Edited by Kahis on 27-10-2006 21:38