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Posted by javanerkelens on 13-09-2010 22:28

Small fly (about 5 mm) from alcohol, found in Norway, North: 6577810 East: 287417
Sk�r, Karm�y
What Heleomyzidae could this be.....

Joke

Edited by javanerkelens on 15-09-2010 18:42

Posted by rvanderweele on 14-09-2010 08:31

Joke, I think it is Neoleria, but I want to look in my collection which species it exactly is flavicornis or ruficeps.
Is it possible to take a photo of the mesopleuron, sternopleuron and hind femur?

A pity that in the Hungarian key there are not drawings of the genitalia of Neoleria.

Posted by javanerkelens on 14-09-2010 21:17

I hope this wil do...
Because i stick the needle into the mesopleuron, where maybe one hair could be present, i checked under microscoop if there could be an seta behind the needle....with no result (also on other side)
On sternopleuron 5-6 short hairs before the strong and long one at end

Joke

Edited by javanerkelens on 14-09-2010 21:19

Posted by rvanderweele on 14-09-2010 21:41

I would say N. ruficeps.
It is quite strange that of so many genera you find drawings of genitals, but not for Neoleria.
Why is that Andrzej?

Posted by rvanderweele on 15-09-2010 13:40

First question: why grrrrrr? ;-)
secondly, I do not have the key here, so ....as far as I know by heart inscripta's abdomen is dark coloured.
thirdly: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THE TIME?

:-)

Ruud

Posted by Andrzej on 15-09-2010 13:46

#10

Hi,
the answer is in your last words: I do not have the key here, so ....as far as I know by heart inscripta's abdomen is dark coloured.
thirdly: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THE TIME
I don't discuss about my free time. I was at really very long holidays ! (I haven't any similar since 2007)
Regards,
Andrzej

Edited by Andrzej on 15-09-2010 13:51

Posted by rvanderweele on 15-09-2010 19:44

#13

Andrzej, if you are looking at the first picture of Joke, I think, you see a bristle on the hind femur (apical). As far as I see in Papp's key, inscripta has not.
Secondly, he mentions that ruficauda and inscripta have a darkgrey abdomen. To my humble opinion the fly on the photo has a yellowish abdomen.
You do not agree with the key of Laci?

cheers,

Ruud

Posted by rvanderweele on 16-09-2010 21:03

#14

Hello Andrzej,

I checked all Neoleria, which i have here from the collection in Amsterdam. Indeed, the inscripta (only 1!) has beautiful yellow-orange humeri! And all the real ruficeps have grey humeri. Also in my own collection the ruficeps specimens have such coloured humeri. I do not have specimens over inscripta, and the only one from Amsterdam's collection has no hind legs (grrrr!) so I can not verify the bristle. The ruficeps for sure have.
For me still weird is that one Joke's first photo I see an apical bristle on the third femur, or am I stupid? And in Laci's key on page 50 at point 4(3) says that the last pair of femur have no bristle! This lead to ruficauda and inscripta.
Andrzej, it is wisdom to chance this 4(3)? Problem is that it also says that the abdomen is darkgrey (at least partly).

Which key do you use, if you still want to check?

cheers,

Posted by javanerkelens on 16-09-2010 21:45

#15

Hello Ruud,

I did a quick look at the remaining flies in alcohol, i still have to ID, and probable there will be 1 female and 2 males, of the same species (and 1 male seems to have darker abdomen, but difficult to be sure if they are in alcohol)
I will look at them this weekend and try not to damage them :S
One female + male for the collection in Amsterdam ,with legs...:D and one for you.....and one left for me...OK?
I wil try to make nice photo's of them also...
So we have more study material....thanks to Hakon!

Joke

Posted by cyprinoid on 16-09-2010 22:11

#17

Andrzej has identified N. inscripta from this location earlier. Joke's flies were collected from a dead rat where they were quite abundant.

Glad I could help