Thread subject: Diptera.info :: Quiz: Thaumaleidae: Thaumalea
Posted by Paul Beuk on 06-08-2008 11:00
#1
What are the family and the genus? The image is rather poor in quality and some of the key characters that would let you run it through the key are not visible. So, it is for those who know it, can tell where it belongs by intuition or found an image that sufficiently resemble this picture.
I hope to get better pictures soon and the whole name as well.
Edited by Paul Beuk on 03-10-2008 08:22
Posted by xylo on 06-08-2008 12:04
#2
If you have not seen this already once.... then it is quite tricky.....
I would bet on "Solitary Midge" (Thaumaleidae)....
most probable species of Thaumalea.....
so long,
xylo
Posted by Paul Beuk on 06-08-2008 12:43
#3
Spot on. I will not ask you to give its species name. :)
Posted by xylo on 06-08-2008 13:11
#4
Well, I can not id it from this photo :p Moreover it is a female... Males are somewhat more distinctive in their genital......
R?diger Wagner treated the European fauna of thaumaleids (German only):
WAGNER, R. (2002): Insecta: Diptera: Thaumaleidae. ? In: SCHWOERBEL, J. & ZWICK, P. (eds.): S??wasserfauna von Mitteleuropa 21 (10+11): 41?110; Heidelberg-Berlin: Spektrum.
However, if collected from lowland my guess would be Thaumalea testacea.....
Cheers,
xylo
Posted by Paul Beuk on 06-08-2008 15:40
#5
This specimen is from Greece and measures almost six mm...
Posted by xylo on 07-08-2008 07:59
#6
Paul,
This sounds very interesting.... Greece is more or less a white spot on the distribution map: According to Fauna Europaea there are only three thaumaleid species known (Crete and Cyclades Islands) plus two undescribed species known as females only from Cyprus and Crete. None from Greek mainland so far.
Do you have also males? I would be happy examining your hot material under my binocular....
so long,
xylo
Posted by Paul Beuk on 07-08-2008 09:21
#7
So far two females. I have a pretty good idea which species it is but I need to confirm that using Wagner's key. I don't have that one here yet. ;) And it is from the Greek main land. :D
Posted by xylo on 07-08-2008 15:09
#8
So we will read a paper dealing with Greek thaumaleids soon.....B)
If you need the key immediately or other (European/Palaearctic) thaumaleid literature: pm me... I do have nearly everything in file....
:p
Cheers,
xylo
Posted by Paul Beuk on 07-08-2008 20:22
#9
If you have Wagner's key in pdf, I cannot wait to lay my hand on it. ;)
Posted by xylo on 08-08-2008 10:18
#10
You have post....
so long,
xylo
Posted by Paul Beuk on 08-08-2008 10:31
#11
Indeed I have. Thx. You will know sooon...
Posted by Paul Beuk on 08-08-2008 15:57
#12
Hmm, rather complicated. I have difficulty using the key in a proper way because of the confusing use of ventral, basal, distal and 'hinter' (posterior) when it comes to the femal genitalia. Moreover, in many instances alternatives in the key are not illustrated except when it comes to species. So one is obliged to have a look at species illustrations and hope one can see the feature correctly illustrated. The fact that all illustrations are then scattered throughout the publication and sometimes in no logical order in the plates, and that some figure references in the key are incorrect do not help much either. Anyway...
One female of about 6 mm does have genitalia which are not illustrated by Wagner. No species name here.
The other female, smaller (4.5-5 mm) has genitalia that closest resemble those of
T. kykladica but some material for comparisson or a male would be useful to confirm this identification.
Posted by Gordon on 08-08-2008 18:42
#13
I think I remember sorting this out and not having a clue about it at all. Unfortunately I have a lot of unsorted material from Project Kerkini, and because I am now 8000 Euro in debt and with still no sign of future payment I am giving up, today I was offered a nice job teaching English in Saudi Arabia. I do not know what will be done with all the unsorted malaise material.
Gordon
Posted by Paul Beuk on 08-08-2008 22:11
#14
Sorry to hear that you will be changing jobs on one hand, glad on the other. Hope you will like the climate there (in more than one sense).
Try to get the unsorted material shipped to someone who can deal with it. Maybe we will have some vollunteers here?
Posted by cosmln on 08-08-2008 22:21
#15
Paul Beuk wrote:
Sorry to hear that you will be changing jobs on one hand, glad on the other. Hope you will like the climate there (in more than one sense).
Try to get the unsorted material shipped to someone who can deal with it. Maybe we will have some vollunteers here?
if is the case i can be one of the volunteer, but i don't know all family.
cosmln
Posted by Paul Beuk on 08-08-2008 23:12
#16
It would be more than just Diptera, I gather...
Posted by Gordon on 09-08-2008 08:47
#17
Dear Paul and Cosmin etc,
Firstly I am still looking for a more satisfactory solution, I have a few days before i have to accept the Saudi job. I had decided, because of the lack of pay, and worse because this has meant no car the complete lack of a social life, and no home hence no garden all of which have added up to several months of depression that I would leave in November or December, there are plenty of teaching jobs about, I have a CELTA as well as my degrees, and I am of course that magic thing a 'Native Speaker', however this job has been offered as starting in Mid September and I have to think about it seriously. The biggest problem might be that I don't actually have enough money to get there and live the first month, but I am working on that too.
As to the sorting, some volunteers is a very nice idea, despite all the problems I know this project is of value, but there is quite a bit of material, and yes it would be more than Diptera, of course I expect Cosmin would have no difficulty with the coleoptera, most of which go to Max in the NHM and so are not sorted to family. We will see. I will of course keep everybody posted, and I am grateful for all the help and support that Diptera.info has provided these last 6 months.
Gordon
Posted by xylo on 09-08-2008 13:11
#18
Hi all,
Though not involved so far in the Kerkini wetland project it would be a pity to loose the collected biological information. The only thing I can offer is to sort out "nematocerous" Diptera and id them on family level. Moreover I can offer secured long term storage in our museum and availability to interested parties.
Paul,
Yes, female thaumaleids are very difficult, especially having some without distinctive appendages. As already stated by Wagner the key is more than preliminary and many females are still unknown....
Cheers,
so long,
xylo
Posted by Gordon on 10-08-2008 08:26
#19
Thanks Xylo,
I will let you know if you offer is likely to be taken up. Would you be able to determine Chaoborids, I believe there are only three species in Europe, but I have found no key to separate them?
For today I can say that I have been offered the supposedly part-time job for four months of sorting out fish species from Cormorant pellets, while it would undoubtedly be interesting I am a little worried, as they don't have a full reference collection, that it might end up taking up all my time as I will have to work my way into it.
Still it would hopefully allow me to get a lot more of this years material sorted, but as Prof. Malicky the Trichoptera expert has asked me to keep running several of the traps at least until December, I might just end up with a different cupboard full of unsorted material so I will keep everybody's offers of help in mind.
Dear Paul,
What can I say, I will do me best to find some male Thaumaleids but you know how it goes.
Gordon
Posted by Paul Beuk on 12-09-2008 13:22
#20
Paul Beuk wrote:
The other female, smaller (4.5-5 mm) has genitalia that closest resemble those of T. kykladica but some material for comparisson or a male would be useful to confirm this identification.
Found another vial with three females in it from the same locality. As a result I was able to have a better look under different angles and am now quite satisfied that this species is
T. bezzii. A species already know from Greece mainland according to the map in Wagner's key.
This is not the species in the picture in the first post of this thread. ;)
Posted by Paul Beuk on 03-10-2008 09:03
#21
At last, one sample with both a male and a female. And the female, I think already was one I had not seen before and now with the male I can add
Androprosopa intermedia (Schmid, 1958) to the Greek list and start working on the description of the female (if I ever find the time).
On a side note: The character to separate (at least some) female
Androprosopa from
Thaumalea is virtually worthless: Cerci hardly longer than broad for
Androprosopa/
Protothaumalea and distinctly longer than broad for
Thaumalea. Even from Wagner's illustrations of
Protothaumalea (Figs. 5e, 5i) and
Androprosopa (Fig. 7h) it is clear to see that some have cerci that are easily mistaken as being longer than broad; and from some illustrations of
Thamalea (Figs. 21c, 21f) the reverse is clear. I consider the cerci of the female of
A. intermedia also to have cerci that are distinctly longer than broad.
Posted by Paul Beuk on 11-06-2009 12:01
#22
Thamalea bezzii now confirmed by a male specimen.
Posted by xylo on 12-06-2009 06:40
#23
So another distribution gap is filled. :)
Keep on…
so long,
xylo
Posted by pwalter on 12-06-2009 09:36
#24
And another family for Gallery!
Thaumaleids of Hungary were also a mistery. For example Thaumalea talhammeri was described from W-Hungary, the types were lost, as were all but 3 specimens of other species in the Natural History Museum of Hungary. Not so long ago, Laszlo Papp collected a dozen specimens in some locations, and redescribed T talhammeri as a valid species, when I correctly remember, anyway, I have the paper. Most of the Hungarian specimens were collected in by a brook not far from where I live, I was there several times but didn't see any :(