Gallery Links
Users Online
· Guests Online: 6

· Members Online: 0

· Total Members: 4,361
· Newest Member: SandroM
Forum Threads
Theme Switcher
Switch to:
Last Seen Users
· John Carr01:23:22
· Waldgeist01:31:13
· Carnifex01:50:19
· Maks S03:21:13
· sylvester_k03:29:06
· PhilC03:31:57
· Renko03:46:15
· piros04:00:06
· Juergen Peters04:15:19
· helge04:41:22
Latest Photo Additions
View Thread
Diptera.info :: Identification queries :: Diptera (adults)
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
Muscidae - Phaonia errans (?)
Rosevinge15
#1 Print Post
Posted on 04-09-2019 23:17
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

South Norway, Telemark
01.09.2019
Came to light
Size: 8,2 mm.

Rosevinge15 attached the following image:


[292.69Kb]
Edited by Rosevinge15 on 07-09-2019 23:28
 
Rosevinge15
#2 Print Post
Posted on 04-09-2019 23:17
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

2
Rosevinge15 attached the following image:


[285.11Kb]
 
Rosevinge15
#3 Print Post
Posted on 04-09-2019 23:18
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

3
Rosevinge15 attached the following image:


[293.26Kb]
 
Rosevinge15
#4 Print Post
Posted on 04-09-2019 23:18
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

4
Rosevinge15 attached the following image:


[298.52Kb]
 
Rosevinge15
#5 Print Post
Posted on 04-09-2019 23:19
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

5
Rosevinge15 attached the following image:


[250.82Kb]
 
Rosevinge15
#6 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 19:16
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

Smile ?
 
johnes81
#7 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 20:10
User Avatar

Member

Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1903
Joined: 15.10.16

Hello Rosevinge,

looks like Phaonia to me, especially with hairy eyes. At first, i didn't see a phaonia bristle but it looks like a Phaonia. Now i see what appears to be a broken pd on the hind tibia (phaonia bristle). Thus, i remain at Phaonia.

I suppose it is Phaonia tuguriorum because of the reddish scutellum and infuscated crossveins. I thought that they were an early spring species. I will try to key it later. I have a few things to do...

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
johnes81
#8 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 21:02
User Avatar

Member

Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1903
Joined: 15.10.16

well i've keyed it to Phaonia tuguriorum male

i don't have a male specimen, so perhaps it is active later in the year. I only find females in February. Very interesting. Excellent photos!

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
Nikita Vikhrev
#9 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 21:10
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8203
Joined: 24.05.05

I don't think so. What we have for sure? Scutellum yellow at apex; prst ac absent; notopleuron hairy; frontal vitta absent; narrow fronto-orbital plates touch. Katepimeron haired or bare, it is unknown, but author may check it.
If katepimeron will turn to be hairy - P. errans
If katepimeron bare - P. scutellata
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
johnes81
#10 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 21:25
User Avatar

Member

Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1903
Joined: 15.10.16

Hello Nikita,

I disagree with errans as a possibility because the fore femora are darkened and the pedicel of the antennae is yello orange besides the lack of pre ac.

I used the keys from Muscidae (Diptera) of Central Europe:
"pedicel as dark as flagellomere; palpus completely dark" - scutellata

the pedicel is yellow orange, thus i exclude P. scutellata.
I don't have a P. scutellata specimen. So the pedicel can be yellow orange?

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
Nikita Vikhrev
#11 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 21:53
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8203
Joined: 24.05.05

Muscidae of Central Europe:
P. errans (p. 117): prst ac absent; f1 usually darkened in male + jizz votes for P. errans.
P, scutellata: pedicel black, yes. but tuguriorum has much wider frons.

Thus, I'm almost sure that katepimeron will turned to be hairy.
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
johnes81
#12 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 22:15
User Avatar

Member

Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1903
Joined: 15.10.16

yes, i missed the word absent. elongated presutural acr "absent".
I suppose that i am assuming the kpm is bare. my mistake if it is haired.

the post was unanswered, so atleast i tried to help. I guess Phaonia tuguriorum is not possible but i would like to see genitalia because the pedicel should not be this light for scutellata according to Hennig and the intermediate signata notes. I find this interesting. I'd like to study Phaonia tuguriorum/scutellata.

Thank you for the id, Nikita. Smile

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
Rosevinge15
#13 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 23:26
Member

Location:
Posts: 3660
Joined: 29.11.15

Thank you John and thank you Nikita for an interesting exchange of views. Sorry - I'm kind of embarrassed because I no longer have the fly - so we'll probably never know…

Rosevinge
 
Nikita Vikhrev
#14 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 23:38
User Avatar

Member

Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 8203
Joined: 24.05.05

It is a pity (I did not find smiley with crying entomologist, it would be very siutable)!
(My next idea was to check hairs on radial node, because P. mediterranea also can not be excluded for South Norway...)
Edited by Nikita Vikhrev on 07-09-2019 23:38
Nikita Vikhrev - Zool Museum of Moscow University
 
johnes81
#15 Print Post
Posted on 07-09-2019 23:45
User Avatar

Member

Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 1903
Joined: 15.10.16

Hello Rosenvinge,

no need to worry about a specimen. You should follow the advice of Nikita.

I keyed the species to errans, scutellata or tuguriorum. I think that of the three, only tuguriorum has such a yellow orange pedicel, thus i assumed that the kpm is bare. If it is haired, then it would be errans. However, i still wonder why the antennae are not completely dark.

Also, I am troubled by the fact that dipterists are using only the size of a frons to constitute a species (scutellata) without any mention of genitalia or dna. I think that tuguriorum/scutellata should be viewed the sme as Helina evecta/annosa - possibly a single species variation. I'd like to collect tuguriorum and scitellata for genital dissection and dna sequencing. I did not realize how similar the two are described. Hennig mentions the width of the frons in relation to the anterior ocelli but this is not scientific in my opinion. I am going to hunt for these two species. I find this very interesting. I think that if scutellata can have very pale pedicel, then the keys to these two species are not correct. Furthermore, the width of the frons needs to be evaluated using genitalia and more than two specimens from Sweden (Hennig).

Best wishes,
John
John and Nini. Naturalists not experts.
 
Jump to Forum:
Similar Threads
Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Muscidae from Cambodia -> Musca sp. Diptera (adults) 7 17-02-2020 15:03
Muscidae ID please => Phaonia tuguriorum/scutellata Diptera (adults) 8 16-02-2020 14:15
Muscidae 4 Diptera (adults) 6 16-02-2020 13:12
Muscidae? (Ecuador) Diptera (adults) 3 16-02-2020 00:16
Muscidae ID please Diptera (adults) 6 15-02-2020 10:54
Date and time
18 February 2020 02:23
Login
Username

Password



Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Temporary email?
Due to fact this site has functionality making use of your email address, any registration using a temporary email address will be rejected.

Paul
Donate
Please, help to make
Diptera.info
possible and enable
further improvements!
Latest Articles
Syrph the Net
Those who want to have access to the Syrph the Net database need to sign the
License Agreement -
Click to Download


Public files of Syrph the Net can be downloaded HERE

Last updated: 25.08.2011
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

23.12.19 23:36
thx Paul! All is OK! Merry Xmas to All!

04.12.19 10:23
Thx! TumbsUp

04.12.19 09:33
There are some internal issues withy their servers and they are working on it.

02.12.19 08:42
Anyone knows what happened with the Catalog of Fossil Diptera at the bishopmuseum.org webpage? Cannot access it Frown

01.11.19 22:46
Hi! may I ask, why the soldierfly banner (https://www.dipte
ra.info/images/sol
dierfly-banner.png
) is so big (4790x870 Pixels, 1, 4 M Cool? It always lasts minutes to load on a slow connection and costs a

18.09.19 20:06
Jewell699, you should post it in the forum, not submit it for the gallery.

15.09.19 20:41
Jewelm699 - did you upload it to a forum (which one?) or the gallery? I can't find it.

11.09.19 13:15
I’m hoping someone can identify the phoridae maggot or pupae I just uploaded.

28.08.19 14:29
Rafael p is legs and f1 is fore femur

26.08.19 17:13
If you experienced a very sluggish site recently, it may have been because someone tried to upload a maliciuous script by force. It appears to have failed. The visitor was blocked further access.

Render time: 6.95 seconds | 144,100,064 unique visits