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Hi
Is this a Tachinid fly?
I've tried do find out about this little fly. Measure 3,5-4 mm.
From my moth-trap September 2014

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pic2-head

If you need more pictures let me know.

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Actia or Peribaea.

COuld we get a lateral shot of the side of the thorax (pleura) ?

Thank you


Theo

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@Theo

Here is a new picture.
I hope this will help.

Tor

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OK, so Peribaea it is !

Can you tell, is the r1 vein bare or does it carry bristles ?

Theo

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pic4. the left wing.

@Theo

I think the photo are ok, so here you can see the bristles.

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Hi Tor,


You are looking at the wrong vein. The bristles are there, but out of focus.
Vein R1 is the vein more frontal than you focused on, the short vein.
And now.... I need to know whether vein R1 is bare or with bristles from below / the under side !

Theo

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Hi Theo:)

Not only the R1 was out of focus yesterday. So was I :S

I have studied the wing yesterday evening and today morning.
There are no bristles onto the R1. Completely without bristles on upper- and underside. Dorsal and lateral.

What I found on lateral side was one bristle/spine where the R2+3 and R4+5 split.

I will try to make some more pictures during the day.

Thanks a lot Theo for your help |t

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Hi Tor,

As Theo mentioned earlier, there are out of focus bristles on the dorsal R1 in the above photo.I've arrowed R1 on a copy of your photo. Its the presence of bristles ventrally which determines the species,
regards,
Steve

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Thanks, sd !

Don't panic, Tor,

They are out of focus, but I can see the bristles, both upper and under.

So it is Peribaea apicalis.


Theo

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Hi Steve

I wrote this in my last answer to Theo:
"There are no bristles onto the R1. Completely without bristles on upper- and underside. Dorsal and lateral."

Tor

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We knwo, but we think you are wrong. We see them !

Theo

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Two more pictures here.
It's the same wing dorsal and lateral.

@Steve
as I mentioned earlyer:
"There are no bristles onto the R1. Completely without bristles on upper- and underside. Dorsal and lateral."

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next pic.

Peribaea apicalis is never seen in Norway/north Europe.
Then we have this two P. hertingi og P. setinervis.
I guess it's possible to find out.
I'm also in contact with a norwegian Tachinide-specialist.

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Hi Tor,

Thanks for posting the extra photos. First of all, I hope Theo doesn't mind if I clear up that it is tibialis which has hairs ventrally on R1 and apicalis is bare ventrally, so Theo means tibialis rather than apicalis on seeing dorsal and ventral R1 hairs.

I still think I see hairs dorsally but I'm not sure ventrally; its easier to decide if the photo is taken at an angle rather than directly above. I've circled on your photos where the hairs might be. I really think I can see about 4 bristles on the dorsal R1.

You are quite right that Haraldseide (Checklist of Norwegian Tachinidae 2012) lists just hertingi and setinervis for Norway and that both these species have R1 bare dorsally. Another difference between this pair and tibialis / apicalis is that the hairs on R4+5 should not extend much beyond m-cu for tibialis / apicalis but they do in this specimen, so I am a bit puzzled. I will check my collection for variation but I just have apicalis (several) and tibialis (one).

regards,
Steve

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..

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Just had a quick look at my specimens and the hairs on R4+5 extend well beyond m-cu which conflicts with Andersons Peribaea key first couplet in my view. So I still think this is tibialis/ apicalis and therefore a new record for Norway maybe. Of course if the specimen was male it would be trivial to rule out hertingi and setinervis !
I'll try to post photos of my specimens in the next few days.
Would be interesting to hear other opinions.
regards,
Steve

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Have a look at the picture of the head.
We totally overlooked the fact that the third antennal segment is bifid !!

So it is a male setinervis / hertingi.

These cannot be separated, in my opinion, at least not by Andersons features.

Theo

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Funny, in one it is bifid, in the other one it is not
Tor, is this really one and the same ??
Is it male or female ?

Theo

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Sorry about the apicalis, ever. since the names changed, I am lost.

Theo

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Yes, I see now(!) 3rd photo has left antenna bifid and 2nd photo has right antenna undivided it seems!
Steve

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@ Theo and Steve

Well it seems to be a difficult identification this time.
I have got an aswer from mr Haraldseide, and he is of the opinion that this is a female P. hertingi.

I add two more pictures this time, and one of them, the lateral, shows the front leg and tarsus. (Andersen point to this)

Theo wrote:
"Funny, in one it is bifid, in the other one it is not
Tor, is this really one and the same ??"
-answer; Yes. I only have this Peribaea :)

Steve wrote:
"So I still think this is tibialis/ apicalis and therefore a new record for Norway maybe."
Well, that be fun an amateur find the new specie for the country.

I must say thank you very much for the interest and work you show on this fly.

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next pic

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antenna

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Hi Tor, thanks again for the extra photos, I see now that the earlier photo which looks like a bifid antenna is due to the coincidental position and shadow of the arista! Photographs are a lot trickier to decipher than holding a specimen under a stereo microscope which is why we were asking for different angles. It was certainly our honest opinion that there were out of focus hairs on the apical r1 in the photos you posted, though the close-up of the arista in your most recent photo is certainly consistent with hertingi or setinervis.
I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding the possibility of "amateurs" finding species additional to a published country list - it happens all the time, a local friend here in the UK has added several tachinids to the UK list, I have added to the Italian fauna and many others who post on Diptera.info have extended the known ranges of European species...
regards,
Steve

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So, it is female and the antenna is not bifid.
At least that makes sense !


Theo

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Hi

Yes, at least it makes sense :)
I put on my last picture here, and now I will say that this fly is a female P.hertingi

Keyed after Anderson:
"Tarsomere 2 of fore legs in female not enlarged, equal in widt to tarsomere 1"

Thanks to both of you, Theo and Steve |t
I've learned a lot :)

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The second aristal segment is also strongly elongated, in accordance with P. hertingi.
Seems we got to the end of this road (J.J. Cale).


Theo